Hi all, new L1 here and first forum post. I've got a policy question for drafts at REL.

At my local store, there's a couple who routinely come in for drafts, rare/value draft, and then leave before the first round pairings are up, usually (or always?) without notifying the TO at the store. This means there are routinely a couple players in each pod who end up getting byes in the first round when paired against the missing players (referred to as MPs going forward). Sometimes the TO will manually assign the bye to the MPs or pair them against each other in the first round if they're in the same pod, but this is a pain in the butt and there's not always time for it.

At this point the TOs are aware of this practice (as are all the other regular players at the store). But they won't drop the MPs before the first round pairings are done either because the MPs don't specifically say that they're dropping, or because the TO feels like they shouldn't be dropped before then because they still paid to be a part of the tournament.

This just recently came to my attention, and I think the TO could handle the situation better by just dropping the MPs before pairing the first round. I believe 2.10 of the MTR specifically allows for this and it wouldn't be a problem at REL, and would fix all the feelbads every time two players in a pod end up sitting out round 1 with no opponents.

Would there be any issues with just dropping the MPs before pairing round 1? Even if they don't say anything about dropping? Does the line in the MTR about repeatedly/intentionally dropping without informing the scorekeeper apply to REL or in this situation? I don't think talking to the MPs would help at all, they seem to have zero interest in actually playing a game of magic at the store.

Let them know that their behaviour disrupts the tournament and that dropping right after they finish drafting is very helpful to you. If they ignore you, tell them that you will report them to the WPN for intentionally disrupting the tournament and that they might get a heavier sanction from the DCI, including suspensions.

I hope that the MPs will understand and you won't have many problems.

If they always do this (never actually play in the draft), I would talk to the organizer about asking them not to enter. I doubt the owner will want to do it, since they are regular customers, but maybe this owner will actually understand that it is a net negative to his customer base to have them in the event.

This is something that a TO is better equipped to handle. We've had situations where we've run mini-master tournaments, or cheap drafts as a community thank you event. If someone does the math, they realize it's much better EV to register, get your product, drop, re-register, etc… Obviously this is not in the spirit of the event. The TO took these players aside and told them if you have to drop, that's fine, but don't expect to register for another event today.

In the case where you have a player who chronically drafts and drops, I'd explain to the player (with the TO's blessing) that it's disruptive to the tournament. People came here to play magic and you're spoiling it for them. If you just want to open packs, you can purchase them at the counter. If you're here to rare draft and leave, please don't come back.

Originally posted by Shawn Doherty:

maybe this owner will actually understand that it is a net negative to his customer base to have them in the event.

I wouldn't assume that this is net negative for all the customers. Depending on prize structure, I would be happy to get a first round bye if it guaranteed me into prizes. At GPSJ the ODE drafts had a very solid prize structure such that I'd much rather get the bye instead of having a chance to lose the first game and be out of prizes. If you've got a pretty flat prize structure then it's a much greater impact.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm definitely going to leave it to the TO to handle, but I will provide them input based on your responses. Sounds like it would be reasonable to have them talk to the players and at least ensure that if they're going to keep doing this (and that the TO is ok with it) they can make sure to be dropped before play starts.

It is a negative to the other players, and the general feeling I get from them is that nobody else likes that this is happening. The prize support for these events is small and a first round bye doesn't guarantee you anything other than sitting around not getting to play, plus many of the players actually value the draft experience and don't like how someone not drafting strategically throws off other picks.

A common variation that some stores implement to avoid this sort of thing: draft for “picks”.

You don't keep what you draft, after the play is completed, all Rares, Uncommons, and Foils are collected. The winner gets first pick from the Rares and Foils, then 2nd, etc., until everyone's had a pick - then repeat. If you have multiple pods, you can pair outside pods after 3 rounds, to get a clear winner, or you can keep the picks separate by pod.

Yes, this is legal. (Pre-emptive, because I've answered THAT question a few times, too.)

No, not all players like it this way - esp. not the ones you're having problems with.

Very important caveat, if you do this: you HAVE to explain it to people before you take their money and let them open packs. Some will refuse to play “for picks”; some will refuse to play “keep what you draft”. Both have valid points.

d:^D

Per MTR 2.10, this doesn't stop them from dropping and taking their cards with them does it?

“Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time.” - you could get into the semantics of “correctly” in that phrase, and the concept on which “picks” drafts is are based is that the TO owns the cards until they're redistributed as prize support.

You could even split more hairs (heh), and say that someone who drops and leaves with rares and/or foils, is guilty of Theft of Tournament Materials. (You could just as easily argue that MTR 2.10 contradicts that idea.)

Where this is used, it's done with the full cooperation of the players. That's why it's important to explain it to players before they sign up - if they don't want to cooperate, they won't sign up.

d:^D

It's been brought to my attention that my last post wasn't as clear as hoped. Tongue-in-cheek doesn't always translate in e-mail…

Yes, you could argue lots of different things - but that's beside the point. Drafts for picks is a cooperative effort, and players who don't want to cooperate shouldn't sign up. The rest is semantics & hair-splitting - so, don't bother.

d:^D