This thread is for discussing the article Working with Unfamiliar Stores by Jeffrey Vandenberg.

Good article, but 50 players is unreasonable for one judge?

Kids today…

I much prefer a ratio of about 30:1 players:judges and events over a certain size I also prefer to have a dedicated scorekeeper (above and beyond the judges on staff). I do remember working many an event (back in the day) not using that as a ratio guide to various outcomes.

A good article, my favorite part was your Walking Away, I'll reemphasize this should be over compensation/working conditions, and should be the first thing to get hammered out. I'ld much rather we agree to not work together than enter into a working relationship that we are not both comfortable in.

Review Tournament Details: None of the first paragraph has anything to do with your responsibility as a HJ. I believe details that should be discussed are format, venue capacity and expected attendance. Obviously if you know the community well you could provide guidance out there regarding appropriateness of entry fee and/or prize support but I wouldn't do this as unsolicited advise. The biggest negative experience I've had with a TO in the last 10 years is when I confronted him on what I thought was a bad prize payout.

I don't necessary believe that more than a box of comp is ever required for a PPTQ unless you have to drive 3 hours, etc. Also I am not thrilled about the pack per head, unless the store is local. Imagine a GPT where you have 9 players, have to fun 8 round (5 + top 8) for 9 packs…

The reality is with these PPTQs, I'm only working an hour or two less than I did with PTQs. So I have no problem receiving the same compensation I did with PTQs. (I mean, a 35 player event is only an hour shorter than a 120 player event)

Now, if 15 people show up, sure, we can discuss something different. But I have no problem taking more than one box for a PPTQ.

Oh and it's very difficult to give a good, full experience to 50 players as a solo judge (And take care of yourself as well). I would strongly recommend against it (And do, in a tournament report I wrote)

http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/topic/15420/

My first reaction after reading the article was this:
“A comment to the compensation part from the german judge community:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
2 Boxes
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nothing to add, sorry. ”

After thinking about it, I have to clarify this:
It heavily depends on where you are located. As Christian Genz pointed out in a later post SCG sells boxes for a lower price shops in europe have to pay for them. Depending on TO you can expect 1 to 2€ per player, if you are the only judge, but by far not those 2 boxes mentioned in the article. If it's one it was a good day.

Originally posted by Amanda Swager:

I don't necessary believe that more than a box of comp is ever required for a PPTQ unless you have to drive 3 hours, etc. Also I am not thrilled about the pack per head, unless the store is local. Imagine a GPT where you have 9 players, have to fun 8 round (5 + top 8) for 9 packs…

If it's a sealed event, yes(Deck registration/building can be counted as a round), but constructed “only” has Top4.
The problem is, a store wants to earn money with events, so they can't give you more or they have to increase starting fee, which results in less players. If it's a small event usually they are fine with +-0 win/loss.

Edited Johannes Wagner (May 6, 2015 03:08:14 AM)

Making money is not the problem of the judge, but of the business. But I agree that 2 boxes for a PPTQ which are usually ~20-40 players seems excessive regarding German standards.

The way I look at it, the TO is required to use a Level 2 judge. With that in mind, we have proven our skillset. This is not something that just anyone can do. The standard in our area has been set at 2 boxes and lunch (I forgot this at a pptq and was glad I had a protien bar with me).

Granted in your area it might be different, but why should we sell ourselves short?

Also, I do like that Jeffrey mentioned walking away. That is something that a lot of newer L2s don't think they can do.

Great article expectially for someone that is going to a town where there is only a single shop in town. Now my question for you all is how would y'all handle the “Walking away” section of the article if, let's say, you are the only judge with in an hour of this shop because it's in a college town?

Edited Joshua Quimby (May 6, 2015 08:15:23 AM)

Ask the TO what their expectations of you are and then tell them what your
expectations are regarding staffing and comp.
Another thing to think about is scorekeeping. Will he provide a dedicated
computer/SK for you? If you have further questions feel free to message me
off board so as to not clutter everyone's inbox.
On May 5, 2015 10:33 PM, “joshua quimby” <

Originally posted by joshua quimby:

Great article expectially fir someone tgat is going to a town wither there is only a single ship in town. Now my question for you all is how would y'all handle the “Walking away” section of the article if, let's say, you are the only judge with in an hour of this shop because it's in a college town?

Stores aren't allowed to host PPTQs until they reach Advanced Status - that requires hosting events with at least 100 unique players, and at least one event with 32+ players. Those players may not all want to play Comp REL events, but Wizards is making it clear that PPTQs aren't appropriate for stores with player bases too small to afford judge staff. One option to consider would be suggesting to a store that they partner with other area stores (define “area” however broadly you like!) to host a “PPTQ day” where you HJ multiple PPTQs in one day at a single site. While you'll need additional floor judges to make it run smoothly, it's a way for stores that believe that they couldn't otherwise afford to host these tournaments to do so.

Or just wish them the best of luck, and let them know that they can contact you in the future as their player base grows - “Maybe we can work together next time” is a better answer than “No.”

Originally posted by Philip Böhm:

Making money is not the problem of the judge, but of the business. But I agree that 2 boxes for a PPTQ which are usually ~20-40 players seems excessive regarding German standards.

So maybe it's the German standards that we need to adress? I won't be expecting 2 boxes just for myself, but I've had more than one pptq where staffing a second judge would've been reasonable. Two boxes for the team sounds reasonable. Also, I've found myself judging fewer events because some events don't make feel like spending my time wisely… In the end, I could be playing in the meanwhile!

It's not only a german thing. Over here in the UK I had PPTQs with 35-40 players with me and a L0 going for his test (and passing it that day) for one box for the judge team.
My guess is that it has to do with huge differences in box prices for the shops. A quick check on scg tells me that they can SELL boxes cheaper than what shops over here have to PAY to the distributor to get them so apparently the “value” of boxes varies heavily depending on where you're located.