Originally posted by Nathan Long:right, MTR state it that way… and that seems rather odd to me. at least counterintuitive. to me “combat?” sounds just like short for “i pass priority to proceed to beginning of combat, do you want to do smthg beforehand?” and so if NAP answers that question by taking action, isn't that clearly a "wait, i'll do this before proceeding to combat“. why is it that that wish has to be explicitly stated and silently taking action is considered a ”yes, i pass priority too, go a step further and then i take action“?
Since I don't think the shortcut from the Magic Tournament Rules has been posted yet, let's do that:
A statement such as “I'm ready for combat” or “Declare attackers?” offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.
So unless the opponent says otherwise, they are assumed to be casting the Stance during the beginning of combat step, not the opponent's main phase.
Nathan Long
Edited Bertil Angermann (May 12, 2015 03:34:09 AM)
Edited Gareth Tanner (May 12, 2015 03:37:23 AM)
Originally posted by Bertil Angermann:
yes, i see, you are concerned about players using word play, but that's not my point. i'm just a bit puzzled by the default value for the interpretation of the shortcut “combat?” being set to before declare attackers instead of to before beginning of combat. until this thread i always thought it was the other way round, and i suppose i'm not the only one
Edited Toby Hazes (May 12, 2015 05:16:07 AM)
Originally posted by Nathaniel Lawrence:
I don't think it's as awkward as people are making it out to be. A line like “Combat, Surrak trigger” is reasonable, as is “Beginning of combat” or “Combat, I have effects before attackers”.
Originally posted by Toby Hazes:Nathaniel Lawrence
I don't think it's as awkward as people are making it out to be. A line like “Combat, Surrak trigger” is reasonable, as is “Beginning of combat” or “Combat, I have effects before attackers”.
The first and last sound somewhat awkward because AP seems to acknowledge he has a trigger on the stack but he hasn't announced a target for it.
The middle one is awkward because if it's accepted we're in Declare Attackers with a missed trigger.
Originally posted by Nathaniel Lawrence:
AP is acknowledging that they have a trigger that will be placed on the stack. NAP needs to accept the shortcut to move to that point first.
Originally posted by Nathaniel Lawrence:
The middle one is almost certainly not Declare Attackers with a missed trigger - AP is being quite explicit about which step they are proposing to move to.
Edited Toby Hazes (May 12, 2015 01:26:58 PM)
Originally posted by Scott Marshall:
And yes, you are expected to understand a few things beyond basic rules, to play in Competitive REL events. Or if not quite “expected”, you're often rewarded for superior rules knowledge.
Originally posted by Toby Hazes:Nathaniel Lawrence
The middle one is almost certainly not Declare Attackers with a missed trigger - AP is being quite explicit about which step they are proposing to move to.
If you have some time to spare: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/topic/15122/
If you don't have time to spare, stay tuned for the List of Official Rulings that will catalog such rulings bite-sized for everyone's convenience =D
Edited Rebecca Lawrence (May 12, 2015 03:06:01 PM)
Originally posted by Nathaniel Lawrence:
I don't think it's as awkward as people are making it out to be. A line like “Combat, Surrak trigger” is reasonable, as is “Beginning of combat” or “Combat, I have effects before attackers”. All of them still allow NAP to respond at a time of their choosing, and do not leave AP feeling like they are divulging information ahead of time with regards to targeting Surrak's trigger.