This question came up in the #mtgjudge channel recently. There was some discussion, but I was encouraged to post here to get additional feedback.

The scenario is: AP plays a turn 1 Serum Visions and begins to automatically resolve it, assuming his opponent has no play. As AP draws a card, NAP says stop and calls a judge over. NAP says that he had a play and shows the judge a Disrupting Shoal.

What would be the correct course of action in resolving this matter?

Just because the opp could play something doesn't mean they will.

Either way it is a GRV /w warning and the fix is to rewind the game by placing a random card on top of the library from their hand. Then let the NAP respond.


Personally I doubt the NAP actually wants to do something. It seems like a bad play and they are fishing for a more severe penalty without actually wanting to do something. Trying to get them for DEC.

That was the conclusion we had come to. Thank you very much for your time.

Would there be consequences for NAP if we rewind, give the warning, let him respond and he says ‘no response’?

I agree that the situation seems fishy, but what is your rationale for calling that a GRV and not a DEC (assuming that “as AP draws a card” means that the card has already touched her hand)?

I can see doing nothing, giving a Game Loss to AP, giving a UC-Minor of UC-Cheating to NAP, but I do not really see how we can give a Warning and backup in this situation.

It's not DEC because he didn't illegally put cards into his hand. He was drawing from the Serum Visions. Whether or not he should have been resolving the visions is the crux of the scenario at hand.

For me I'd rewind, advising AP that it's important to wait for acknowledgement from your opponent before resolving any spell, even if you don't think there'll be a response.

If NAP decides not to response, I'm not going to say anything. I'm definitely not going to say “I saw your hand, you could have responded but after all this didn't”, as that gives away information. NAP is perfectly entitled to get a moment to think before deciding to respond. At the very least, NAP should be allowed the opportunity to to check that the spell played matches the spell announced. In Legacy it is common for players to cast Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and get mixed up in the names and/or put the wrong one on the table. If AP rushes to resolve the spell it prevents NAP from getting a chance to spot the error. Obviously this isn't Legacy, but decks that play Serum Visions often play Sleight of Hand and/or Thought Scour, so the same problem can arise. AP should wait for acknowledgement (1) out of courtesy, and (2) to avoid mishaps.

According to the letter of the IPG for it to be DEC no GRV or CPV had been committed at the moment before AP began the instruction that put a card into his or her hand. I always take it to mean that something ‘noticable’ has gone wrong before the drawing of the card (which is not the case here) but strictly speaking it doesn't say that. You could argue that the fact that there wasn't time to respond was the error and, though impossible for the opponent to prevent, therefore it's not DEC.

Originally posted by Mark Mc Govern:

NAP is perfectly entitled to get a moment to think before deciding to respond.

That, absolutely. Mark cited a number of good reasons for NAP to think - namely, Maintaining the Game State (w/o Failure).

d:^D

Originally posted by Mark Mc Govern:

It's not DEC because he didn't illegally put cards into his hand. He was drawing from the Serum Visions.

I thought that this kind of arguments depended on whether the opposing player had a chance to catch the mistake before the extra card was drawn, which does not seem to be the case here.

(For the record, I don't think that NAP's objection is obviously without merit.)

Edited Florian Horn (June 5, 2015 05:07:20 AM)

Originally posted by Florian Horn:

Mark Mc Govern
It's not DEC because he didn't illegally put cards into his hand. He was drawing from the Serum Visions.

I thought that this kind of arguments depended on whether the opposing player had a chance to catch the mistake before the extra card was drawn, which does not seem to be the case here.

(For the record, I don't think that NAP's objection are obviously without merit.)

That would be if he cast the serum visions illegally but the opponent didn't have the chance to catch it.

Here he cast a spell legally, is resolving it correctly. This can't possibly be DEC. What we have is a miscommunication between the players. I would treat it as any shortcut - Ask the opponent if they want to respond. If they do, stop the shortcut at that point. We've progressed the game past that point, so we have to rewind. I don't see this as any different to a player starting to tap creatures and the opponent saying ‘hang on I want to act in your beginning of combat step’.