Hi everyone!

This, maybe, could sound like a dumb question, but it comes from my first experiences in GPs.

Why don't we think about a visible mark on the shirt to locate instantly an L3+ in the venue when we are in need of one?
Sometimes (aka: always, if you are at your first experiences) it's impossible to recognize an L3 from an L2. If you need a permission for a backup or a GL+ and you can't find you teamleader (and it happens), it becomes quite impossible to locate immediatly another L3.

There are only 2 options: asking other judges to indicate where an L3 is or literally know the face of each individual L3 in the venue, that is quite impossible if you are a new-be.

I was thinking about something simple: a red ribbon attached all around the shirt collar. In this way it could be very easy find out immediatly an L3, even if we have never see him/her before.

Maybe it's really a pointless thing and it has already been rejected other times, but I'd like to talk about it and listen to your opinions. :D

Cheers

Jacopo

Edited Jacopo Strati (May 23, 2015 10:37:25 AM)

It's becoming a trend in the US (from my own personal experiences) for
judges to be given lanyards with badges that are colored based on their
level (and for L3+ have that level printed on).

-Hubble

Some TOs (StarCityGames, for example) have created name tags for all staff, including judges; these have a visible indication of L3+, for exactly this reason.

Someone suggested we use some of Nena's 99 Luftballoons, tied to each L3+ … I'm not really in favor of that idea! :)

d:^D

I've taken part to 3 GPs here in Europe, and no one has adopted this option during these events. I think this could make things easier, and zap the most common judge question “Are you an L3? I need an L3!” :lol:

Hey, jokes aside, they would be so much more easy to find with those
baloons on them.
On a more practical idea, It's rather easy to check who are the L3's
attending a GP you're on staff. Spend some minutes on the Apps event, all
L3s are nore than likely to have a profile pic, and it shouldn't be that
hard to memorize a dozen or so faces. (Unless its a Vegas Style staff.
Those can take a while to check).

Em Sex, 22 de mai de 2015 14:04, Scott Marshall <

We should not be differentiating between judges of a different level, because then that would mean that players can also make that distinction. In a world where we already have issues with level differentiation, there is no justification as to why an L3 is necessarily better than an L1 in responding to any given rules question or situation. Certainly there are experience differences, but that does not mean we want to advertise, or subvert those judges who have not yet achieved a higher level, or even those who have no desire to achieve a higher level. Differentiation by marking level on our shirts would be a disservice to all. Our levels are not some ranking system (ala the military) they are just a way for us to mark experience and merit. Judges of a certain level are expected to have certain knowledge, but that does not play into answering rules questions on the floor or handling situations. A certified judge is just that a certified judge and it does not matter their level for 99% of situations that may arise. Marking level on the shirt would make people care about a particular judge's level which is not something we want.

Feel free to mark you level on your judge hoodie or other shirts but on the judge shirt marking level is not a place we want to go.
I am not even a huge fan of the lanyard as that again plays into the same situation and allows players to differentiate between L3+ judges. I do understand; however, at some of the larger event even we need to be able to differentiate and quickly locate an L3+ for certain reasons.

Although this would be helpful to the staff, I think it's better the way
the system is right now.

Look at it this way: Right now, there's only two “classes” of judges on the
floor: Head Judge (and appeals judges I guess), and floor judges.

As far as the average player is concerned, there is no difference between
any one floor judge. Clearly marking the L3s opens up some avenues that I
don't think we want open, like always-appealing the non-L3s when the ruling
doesn't go your way, or if you're doing something shady maybe only try to
pull in a non-L3 and hope they are inexperienced enough to miss it (or give
an incorrect ruling even).

Basically, marking the L3s only solves a problem that the other judges
might have, but opens up a new host of problems that I don't think are
worth introducing.

Contrary to Leonardo, I have serious issues memorizing faces (and names) and I already struggle with that in real life. So unless I've met you at multiple events, there's a significant probability I'll introduce myself to you multiple times across a weekend… go figure remembering your levels (which sometime changes, because of recent level up/down)!

Which means I have often had the same trouble Jacopo reports finding L3+ for backups and GLs, even after attending many. Yet not a single time, at any tournament, I remember having anyone questioning my ruling because of my level. I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of “picky” players at a GP: I actually find even difficult convincing most of them to try to appeal, when I clearly see they're not that happy with a ruling! What make players doubt your wisdom is usually a wrong body language, voice tone or general approach. Your name tag is the last of their concern.

I do agree that writing the specific level on the name tag wouldn't be appropriate. But introducing a distinctive mark for L3+ would definitely improve everyone's experience and avoid time wasted and panicking judges.

And if someone asks why he has that additional red balloon tied to his back, the answer is super easy: “we both are experienced judges and can help you. He has that badge because we want to control how backups and serious issues are dealt during the event: so a small group of us is put in charge of validating pesky rulings, and will ensure that consistency is preserved throughout the event”.

I strongly advise European TOs/staff managers in adopting a simple visual identification for L3+. A simple, round brightly colored pin to attach to the shirt's pocket would be easy to spot (hopefully even from some distance), and most non-judges probably wouldn't even pay attention to it.

I also have an inability to put names to faces and faces to names. Something to distinguish rewind Judges from the rest of the Black Sea would be very helpful to me as well.

I'd also like some way of visually finding an L3 fast. Although I know most of the european L3s it can still sometimes be hard to actually find them, when they aren't facing you or anything.
I don't like how it was handled at one or some of the most recent NA GPs with a badge around your neck having the level printed on since that may lead to players start questioning your ruling. I'd more to have it a little more subtile, like having the differently colored lanyards for the “GP XYZ 2015”-badges so that only judges know that each color means.

Even that I find myself as a guy with face recognition problem (and forgetting names even before you finish introducing yourself ;) I will agree with CJ and Nicola. Profit from marking L3+'s isn't so huge, compared that it would allow for some shenanigans from players (e.g. calling judge only if there is “unmarked” one hoping for incorrect ruling for his favour).
At my first GP it never took me more than 20sec to locate L3, and again, I find it really hard to remember levels of first time met judges.

Edited Bartłomiej Wieszok (May 25, 2015 02:32:47 PM)

Hey hey, in the past I have found it hard to locate another L3, and I know what they all look like, so don't feel to bad about that.

So here are some tips.
- Find your lead. On the main event your lead will be an L3, in other events, they will be more familiar with who the L3s are. They should be in your area somewhere, and if there is any face you should learn, it's the face of the judge sending you on breaks ;)
(If it is repeatedly difficult to find your lead, perhaps that might make for some valid feedback.)

-ask a group of judges. If there is a cluster of 2 or 3 judges, odds are better one is an L3 or they have seen one very recently.

- Ask a Judge that is walking with confidence. If they are confident, this means this isn't their first time at a big event, and more likely they will be able to point out the L3s

-if you are closer to the stage, head there. Right or wrong, your odds of a random L3 encounter go up as you approach the stage (queue Final Fantasy fight music)

I'm a big fan of what Scott Marshall mentioned. That is, TO's printing lanyard/name badges for the judges, and having L3+ marked in a different way. I, however, also agree with Nicola that you do judges a disservice by including the level in any markings.

I personally believe the best solution to both of these problems is the L3+ Judge Name badges are different colored, or different character-ed, without visibly labeling level. Those ‘in the know’, which judges on the event should be, can use this to identify an L3 slightly quicker, but you don't have as much danger of players using it to be unsporting.

Originally posted by Craig Reeder:

you don't have as much danger of players using it to be unsporting

I am afraid you underestimate the inventiveness and cunning of most “wanna-be pro” players.

I see two problems,
1) as Christian said it's when the judge isn't looking in my general direction I can't tell who they are and can't tell if they're level 3, having a badge wouldn't fix this problem for me I'd still need them to be looking in the right direction. I can see how it may help for those who are unfamiliar with the faces of L3s but normally if a judge attending a GP has this worry I'd suggest they familiarise themselves with who they're team lead is as they will normally be roughly in the same area of floor coverage.
2) it requires visually separating the L3s, many have said if this was done “quietly” so that players don't know about it it'll be OK. The problem is the players who would appeal a non L3 but not an L3 are likely to notice the method (it needs to be noticeable from a distance so can't be small) and be able to spot the correlation