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Tournament Operations » Post: Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

Aug. 5, 2015 05:17:39 PM

Christopher Rumore
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

There are multiple stores on Long Island that run Regular REL drafts multiple times per week. Two stores, including one I'm heavily involved with, use the prize structure of “Pack-per-win” where each player will receive one booster pack for each match win. When one store first started using this method, the subject of draws/ties came up multiple times; they started using the Sudden Death rules used for timed single elimination portions of tournaments. It was my understanding, after discussing this topic with some local judges, that as long as this rule is announced before each tournament, there should be no problem, and as such, I've been using it at the store I've been involved with.

Today, I read a thread here about how one store was handling Intentional Draws incorrectly, and that has me a bit worried that what we've been doing is more of a problem than I first thought. I had always known that the situation wasn't ideal, but none of the players had any issue with it. If this is actually completely against MTR and should not be used for Regular REL events under any circumstances, I'd like some advice on how to handle draws in the future with this prize support.

Thank you!

Aug. 5, 2015 05:41:31 PM

John Brian McCarthy
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Midatlantic

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

The MTR is pretty clear about how end-of-match procedure works:

If the game is incomplete at the end of additional turns, the game is considered a draw.

(…)

In single-elimination rounds, matches may not end in a draw. If all players have equal game wins, the player with the highest life total wins the current game. In the event all players have equal life totals (or are between games and the game wins are tied), the game/match continues with an additional state-based action: if a player does not have the highest life total, he or she loses the game. Two-Headed Giant teams are treated as a single player for determining a game winner.

I'm assuming that these events aren't single-elim, so you can't use the sudden-death rules - matches that run out of time end in a draw.

There are some elements of the MTR that are suggestions - while they suggest a 50-minute round, they only mandate 40 minutes. While allowing players to look at their picks at any time is the default, the HJ is allowed to modify this by announcing it.

The existence of phrases like, “The Head Judge may choose to disallow this provided he or she announces it before the first draft” imply that, for the most part, the HJ and TO shouldn't modify parts of the MTR that don't say that they're at the HJ or TO's discretion. For example, you wouldn't want the TO saying that they wouldn't be following the rules on proxies at a sanctioned event!

So I'd steer clear of changing end-of-match rules because of the prize structure. In terms of what you can do, if the TO wants to keep using pack-per-win payout, but wants to ensure that someone gets the pack from every match, one option would be to put those packs that aren't given out due to draws aside, and hold free drafts at the end of the season with them (so they're still given out to the community).

Edited John Brian McCarthy (Aug. 5, 2015 05:42:23 PM)

Aug. 5, 2015 07:09:39 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

Another idea that occurs to me - record the match as a draw, but use the Sudden-Death rules to determine who gets first pick out of that booster, and then the two players alternate picking a card they want until they're both done. Granted, that usually means someone gets to first-pick the rare, but occasionally there will be a foil and a rare, or something that both players really want.

d:^D

Aug. 5, 2015 07:31:16 PM

Christopher Rumore
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

Another idea that occurs to me - record the match as a draw, but use the Sudden-Death rules to determine who gets first pick out of that booster, and then the two players alternate picking a card they want until they're both done. Granted, that usually means someone gets to first-pick the rare, but occasionally there will be a foil and a rare, or something that both players really want.

d:^D

I don't think this would go over well. Most of the time the players will leave the commons and uncommons on the tables for the stores to clean up afterwards.

One judge I asked about the subject in a more private conversation wondered if entering the result as a draw but using sudden death rules to determine who gets the pack entirely would be a bad idea (which, one could interpret, is essentially what you just proposed). It feels iffy. What's your take on it? I'm assuming there's a reason you say “draft the pack” as opposed to “one gets the pack.”

Aug. 5, 2015 07:36:16 PM

Charlotte Sable
Judge (Level 3 (Magic Judges Finland))

Europe - North

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

What a store I used to work with did was record the results as normal, then
at the end of the event, take everyone who had an odd number of draws and
distribute however many packs were left from those matches among those
players randomly, but no more than one per player. If a player got two
draws in an event, they would get a booster pack and not be included in the
random drawing.

Aug. 5, 2015 10:21:02 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Regular REL Sudden Death for the Sake of Prize Support

I suggested “draft the pack”, because it's what I always offer my opponents for prereleases, where there's a “booster round” (winner gets a booster, or an Ugin's Fate pack). It's especially popular there, because all the cards are new & somewhat desirable. Plus, it fosters a feeling of goodwill with my opponent.

And you're right, what I suggested isn't much different than your take on it.

d:^D