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Competitive REL » Post: Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

Sept. 7, 2015 03:24:58 AM

Christian Harms
Judge (Level 1 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

Greetings!

One of “my” Players approached me with a question I found myself unable to answer, so please help me out:

He's currently using an Elite Vanguard to represent his Kytheon, Hero of Akros in a standard Deck. It was carefully chosen to match Kytheon on P/T and creature types, while being reasonably obvious not standard legal.
I was asked the following:
1) Can/Should he do this ?
I allowed it for my LGS's FNM (loosely interpreting this as HJ aproval of altered art) because he is careful to show and mention it to each opponent before the start of the match, but told him that strictly speaking it was not allowed and he had to choose between using the original card in opaque sleeves or using the official checklist.
2) Could he make the Elite Vanguard into a legal Checklist/Proxy by altering Name, Type and Cost?
I guess MTR 3.5 forbids this: “Only official checklist cards may be used to represent double faced cards in a deck.”
3) What alterations can he make to the official checklist without making it illegal ? This is where we both went beyond what was easily found in the rules:
“Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the
card art unrecognizable,contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card”
3a) Will obscuring all other names on the checklist count as having the remaining on checked ?
3b) Does he have to keep the Checklist's “thumbnail” image of Kytheon visible ? What if the obscuring art is a recreation of Kytheons art?
3c) Does he have to keep the P/T box on Kytheons line visible? Can he obscure the empty P/T box on the bottom? Does the bottom one have to be filled? Does filling it then allow to obscure the upper one?
3d) Does a Checklist even constitute a Card, or is it, like tokens, a non-Card, so the alteration is not limited by the rules?

EDIT: Posting this here because he specifically asked what the ruling would be at Competitive. At our local FNM, I have not been made aware of any opponent of his that objected to his proxying.
If there is an even more appropriate subforum, please do educate me :)

Thanks,
Christian

Edited Christian Harms (Sept. 7, 2015 03:35:40 AM)

Sept. 7, 2015 03:34:35 AM

Charlotte Sable
Judge (Level 3 (Magic Judges Finland))

Europe - North

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

1. This isn't acceptable, even at Regular REL, for the reasons you spelled
out. It's not the official checklist card, so it's not an acceptable
substitute.
2. No. See above.
3a. Yes, this is common with the Innistrad cards, leaving the remaining
card clearly the one intended.
3b. The art is less important than the name and mana cost. As long as the
art doesn't look like a different card, I'm fine with any alter that makes
it look more like Kytheon.
3c. The bottom box generally doesn't matter. As far as most alters of this
type are concerned, it's often ignored/covered.
3d. Checklist cards are official cards, and are in the deck, so they have
to follow the same rules excepting that there's not really art on a
checklist card and the name and mana cost are in odd places.

(All of this is my opinion of course, but I feel it's well supported by
policy and what's followed on from Innistrad block's checklist cards.)

Sept. 7, 2015 04:45:04 AM

Jeremie Granat
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

German-speaking countries

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

The ‘The Head Judge is the final authority on acceptable cards for a
tournament.’ part in the MTR is not a free pass to allow whatever you want.
It is more a free pass to disallow something you think is not okay but
would still conform with the MTR…

Think of it more as a tool to silence players who don't want to believe
their alters are okay :-)

Jeremie

Sept. 7, 2015 07:29:43 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

I concur with Charlotte and Jeremie.

d:^D

Sept. 7, 2015 09:45:29 AM

Christian Harms
Judge (Level 1 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

Thanks for the insight regarding Cheklist alterations.

Am I allowed to take a stance of “No plaintiff, no judge” (as far as our LGS's FNM is concerned), or am I obliged to prevent his use of the Elite Vanguard as substitute for the Checklist?

Sept. 7, 2015 09:51:09 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Origins Walker Checklists and Altered Art

Absolutely no proxies for sanctioned events.