Welcome back to the Knowledge Pool! This week's scenario was created by John Eriksson. As it is Silver level, we ask L2+ judges to wait until Saturday to contribute to the discussion in any way.

The blog post for this scenario is here: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/knowledgepool/?p=1737

You are the sole judge at a Modern Grand Prix Trial. Adam controls Angelic Skirmisher and says, “Combat?” Neville indicates no responses. Adam then continues by saying “Lifelink” and instantly tapping his angel as an attacker. Neville calls you over, pointing out that Adam has missed his trigger. What is the appropriate infraction, penalty, and any additional fix?

First impression; Adam has not missed his trigger. It is a trigger that requires a choice upon resolution, so Adam needs to display awareness of it as it resolves and before he moves to the next step or phase, or takes further action, which was done by making a choice before declaring an attacker.

From the IPG: “A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or make it clear what the action taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly moving to the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.”

Further reading: MTR 4.2 (Tournament shortcuts) backs this up. The shortcut of ‘Combat?’ being agreed to by Neville puts the game at the beginning of combat with Neville having received priority, which would be after Angelic Skirmisher's ability is put on the stack. Adam then indicates his choice and moves to declaring attackers.

To me this is not missed trigger, but rather shortcuts being proposed. no infraction for either party, and ask neville if he accepts the shortcut, or if he has a response, either to the angel gaining lifelink, or when he receives priority after the ability resolves..

In the situation two shortcuts (kinda) have been proposed. with Adam saying “combat?”, he is passing priority to Neville until the beginning of combat step (not much of a short cut.. but..). He then offers the short cut of “assuming you do not respond to the skirmishers ability, I am choosing Life link for my skirmisher, and assuming you have no actions in the beginning of combat step, I will be attacking with the skirmisher.”

The trigger for Angelic Skirmisher specifically states that it triggers at the beginning of each combat, therefore the trigger should have been assumed to be on the stack before either player would get priority during the beginning of combat step. The shortcut for “Combat?” according to the MTR 4.2 states that the player is passing priority to the opponent at the beginning of combat step. At this point I would assume the trigger is on the stack, and say that Neville passing priority back allows the trigger to resolve, Adam acknowledges his trigger as he makes his choice upon resolution, and both players move on to the declare attackers step.

Therefore there is no Missed Trigger, there is no penalty and play proceeds!

Adam has demonstrated knowledge of the trigger by making a valid choice as it should have resolved. The trigger is not missed. If Neville has any actions he'd like to take in the Beginning of Combat step, I'd back up the declaration of attackers and resume the turn in the Beginning of Combat step, with Adam having just passed priority on an empty stack, as it's implied that he has no further actions, and has passed priority already. I won't be assessing any penalties, as no infractions have been committed.

AP proposed a shortcut intending to stop at his beginning of combat step, whether he actually realizes this or not, notes his trigger, and moves on to declare attackers.

NAP understands that the shortcut usually means pass priority until declare attackers.

It is clear that AP is aware of his trigger and has made a choice (lifelink). Even though NAP is used to using ‘combat’ to move to declare attackers, he is not the one who made the shortcut. We can clearly tell what AP meant and I see no reason to do anything here, other than possibly have AP be a bit more clear when proposing shortcuts.

If AP had tapped his angel and THEN said ‘lifelink’ I might be more inclined to say he missed it.

Before reading up on any documents:
I would rule that Adam has not missed his trigger. He merely proposes a shortcut to the combat phase. As his opponent chooses not to respond we are at the beginning of combat step in the combat phase.

After reading:
MTR 4.2: “A statement such as ”I'm ready for combat“ or ”Declare attackers?“ offers to keep passing priority
until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting
then unless they specify otherwise.”

After reading the MTR and other judges responses I would rule that Adam has not missed his trigger and I would issue no penalty as no infraction has occured.

This trigger has been acknowledged at the appropriate time so no infraction, penalty or fix.

I might take a small amount of time to explain that the shortcut ‘combat’ gets us to the Start of Combat phase with Neville having priority, but this doesn't mean the Angel trigger is not on the stack. As this ability requires a choice as it resolves, Adam has made that choice at the appropriate moment and therefore this trigger is not missed.

Before reading: Simply stating “combat?” is normally just a shortened version of “I would like to end my main phase and proceed to combat, do you have any responses?” By indicating no response Neville is basically saying “I have no response, we can go to beginning of combat.” I would rule no missed trigger and no penalties assigned to either player.

After reading: Seems like everyone has the same conclusion.

I am going ask Neville what the result of the shortcut he accepted for “Combat?” should be and then dole out some feel bads to Adam. I expect Neville is going to give something close to the MTR codified shortcut for “Go to Combat”. This ends up within the combat step with priority to Neville, which would be after the trigger should have been resolved. Assuming this is the shortcut Neville accepted, even though it might not be what Adam was thinking, the trigger is missed.

No warning for missing this trigger. No additional fix required.

After reading:
I find the “feel bads” much more effective at teaching proper play. If you rule out of order sequencing to work the way Adam thought he was, even with a teaching moment for the MTR shortcut, he is much more likely to continue with this sequencing. After getting tripped up by Neville, I suspect Adam will be very clear about this in the future.

I know the majority of players do not fully understand the impact of this shortcut and the technicality of being within the beginning of combat step prior to declare attacker with their opponent having priority (on an empty stack). Maybe the MTR should be changed to the last priority in the first Main Phase, or giving priority back to the active player in their own combat phase to alleviate this confusion. A GPT is a good place to learn this.

Re-adding comments now.


Jason,

I would love if you could explain some questions regarding your solution

Originally posted by Jason Kennedy:

I am going ask Neville what the result of the shortcut he accepted for “Combat?” should be and then dole out some feel bads to Adam. I expect Neville is going to give something close to the MTR codified shortcut for “Go to Combat”. This ends up within the combat step with priority to Neville, which would be after the trigger should have been resolved. Assuming this is the shortcut Neville accepted, even though it might not be what Adam was thinking, the trigger is missed.

What indicates that the shortcut puts us at a state that Adam's trigger would have already resolved?

Originally posted by Jason Kennedy:

I know the majority of players do not fully understand the impact of this shortcut and the technicality of being within the beginning of combat step prior to declare attacker with their opponent having priority (on an empty stack). Maybe the MTR should be changed to the last priority in the first Main Phase, or giving priority back to the active player in their own combat phase to alleviate this confusion. A GPT is a good place to learn this.

Does the shortcut defined by the MTR require the stack to be empty?

Edited Jacob Kriner (Sept. 14, 2015 11:03:46 PM)

Before reading: no interaction, no penalty. The trigger isn't missed yet, the “Combat” tournament shortcut by default passed priority until the opponent has priority in BoC. At this point the trigger is on the stack. Neville passed priority, so the trigger resolves and Adam received priority again. He then implicitly proposes another shortcut wherein both players pass priority, allowing A to declare attacks.

After reading: seems to be the consensus. Shout out to those who cited MTR 4.2.

Before reading other responses:

This one is tricky enough that I need to check some specific wordings in the IPG.

Firstly, Angelic Skirmisher's trigger is one that requires a choice upon resolution - this means that Adam must make the choice clear before taking any other game actions, including ‘explicitly moving to the next phase or step’.

Secondly, the MTR defines the tournament shortcut “Combat?” to mean “…offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step.”. Note that this doesn't say “with an empty stack”.

I'd rule that what happened is as follows -

1. In precombat-main, with priority, Adam offers the “Combat?” shortcut.
   
2. This breaks down to offering “I'll pass priority, You'll pass priority, we'll enter Beginning of Combat, Skirmisher will trigger, I'll pass priority, and it will be your priority”.
   
3. Neville indicates “no responses”, which indicates he accepts the shortcut, and then passes priority.
   
4. Both players have passed priority with Skirmisher's trigger on the stack, so that trigger resolves, and Adam resolves it correctly.
   
5. Adam then passes priority, skips over Neville's priority (incorrectly!) and starts declaring attackers.
   

So, for this scenario, I'd rule no infraction for either player, though Adam accidentally used an undeclared shortcut to move from the resolution of the trigger to declaring attackers. If Neville has a response after the resolution of the trigger, before attackers are declared, we may back the game up to that point and allow the response.



After reading other responses:

Jason Kennedy - after having read the other responses, do you not agree that the trigger was not missed? Going to combat with Neville's priority does not imply that the trigger has already resolved, it could still be on the stack.

Also,

Maybe the MTR should be changed to the last priority in the first Main Phase, or giving priority back to the active player in their own combat phase to alleviate this confusion. A GPT is a good place to learn this.

“Last priority in the main phase” is actually the scenario the MTR shortcut is trying to avoid. Before the shortcut was officially defined, you'd get this sequence of “gotcha magic”

1. AP states “Combat?”, by which they actually mean “I pass priority, to move to the beginning of combat step.”
   
2. NAP says “oh wait! I have a response!”, and uses cryptic command to tap down some creatures.
   
3. AP says “Gotcha! I passed priority to you in my main phase, you cast cryptic command in my main phase. We're still in precombat main, I'm going to use this opportunity to cast a hasty creature, and THEN move to combat”
   

“Active player's priority in the beginning of combat step” seems reasonable to me, and how I would expect the shortcut to work. I'd personally prefer it. However, many players don't expect it to work this way, and the “NAP's priority” seems to avoid “gotcha magic” better.


Brock Ullom - It's worth being explicit that “Combat?” moves to beginning of combat, with nonactive player's priority. It's a subtle point that's messed me up as a player.

—

One question I have - I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere, but, assuming Neville wants to respond after the Trigger resolves, but before declare attackers, why are we allowed to perform a backup, if no infraction has occured? Which rules allows us this?

Edit: to answer my own question, are we just considering the tapping of Angelic Skirmisher to be the declaration of a shortcut, which we can undo to allow Neville to shorten the shortcut?

Edited Talin Salway (Sept. 12, 2015 04:31:26 AM)

Originally posted by Brock Ullom:

Before reading: Simply stating “combat?” is normally just a shortened version of “I would like to end my main phase and proceed to combat, do you have any responses?” By indicating no response Neville is basically saying “I have no response, we can go to beginning of combat.” I would rule no missed trigger and no penalties assigned to either player.

After reading: Seems like everyone has the same conclusion.

Actually, “Combat?” means “I would like to end my main phase and my beginning of combat phase and proceed to Declare Attackers”

Source (MTR) :

A statement such as “I'm ready for combat” or “Declare attackers?” offers to keep passing priority
until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting
then unless they specify otherwise.

I think we need to go by intent here, not technicality. We know what he is trying to do and there is no real reason to take his trigger away from him. The whole ‘combat’ shortcut is very counterintuitive.