Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Regular REL » Post: "Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

Oct. 13, 2015 06:55:20 PM

Francesco Scialpi
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

Italy and Malta

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

A store owner, and very good player, let's call him “Willy”, usually plays in prereleases he hosts.
He organizes a “game within the game”, called “Hunting Willy”, i.e.:

1) who gets paired with Willy, wins a booster
2) who gets paired with Willy, and beats him, wins two boosters (one for being paired, one for winning)

I really like this idea, and I would like to propose it to my LGS (we have some good players there), but before doing that, I want to be sure that everything is legal.

1) is safe, I think. Basically the same as “random player wins a booster”.
2) is someway similar to betting on the outcome of match. On the other hand, it's similar to gunslinging, a popular and accepted practice.
Is 2) safe, or a “no-no”?

Edited Francesco Scialpi (Oct. 13, 2015 06:59:09 PM)

Oct. 13, 2015 09:16:12 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

This is fine, and a fun way to distribute prizes.

I used to do something similar, when I ran States; all former Colorado State Champions had a bounty on them; if you beat them, you got a booster.

Because it's skill-based, and especially because there's no risk of loss for the other players, it's not gambling.

d:^D

Oct. 13, 2015 09:20:37 PM

Aruna Prem Bianzino
Judge (Level 5 (International Judge Program))

Iberia

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

and especially because there's no risk of loss for the other players, it's not gambling.
Well, technically there is loss if the other player is the TO and hence the owner of the booster, unless boosters are taken from the prize pool, and it makes no difference for the TO.

Oct. 13, 2015 09:40:51 PM

Brian Schenck
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

Originally posted by Aruna Prem Bianzino:

Scott Marshall
and especially because there's no risk of loss for the other players, it's not gambling.
Well, technically there is loss if the other player is the TO and hence the owner of the booster, unless boosters are taken from the prize pool, and it makes no difference for the TO.

If the TO has built into the budget for the event this kind of prize distribution, then it's not a “loss”. Especially for the purpose of assessing whether this qualifies as gambling, which was more the point of Scott's comment (and I'd hope we couldn't get too technically nitpicky).

If this is approached as a “cost” for the event, where the TO has set aside a set amount of prize support to reward good play, then there is no real “loss” here. Especially for the player who might want to win the prize pack.

Oct. 13, 2015 10:42:52 PM

Benjamin Coursey
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Tournament Organizer

USA - Northeast

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

This is fine, and a fun way to distribute prizes.

I used to do something similar, when I ran States; all former Colorado State Champions had a bounty on them; if you beat them, you got a booster.

We do this for Game Day. It's loads of fun.

Oct. 13, 2015 10:52:58 PM

Sean Carstensen
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Plains

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

My LGS does a free standard FNM at 4:30pm where the top 2 get free entry into the $5 6:30 event. In the paid event, those two players have a bounty on their head. The first player to beat them in the paid event gets a free booster pack. This has gone over very well at our store. If the player with the bounty goes 4-0 they get their own bounty pack. It's a fun way to add an extra element to the tourney.

I say definitely go for something like this and it is perfectly safe.

Oct. 14, 2015 01:45:26 AM

Marc DeArmond
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific Northwest

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

My biggest thought about bounties is make sure to ask someone before placing a bounty on them. Some people may not be interested in being a target in that way and it may make them uncomfortable.

Feb. 1, 2016 11:04:49 AM

Winter
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

I have seen this done at a Competitive REL event where the traders, who were playing in the event, had bounties placed upon them; a match win got you a booster.

It was a lot of fun and I can certainly see it being more effective in smaller events (more typical of regular REL).

I don't see this as betting/gambling. “Win games: get prizes”; is this not the ethos of any event with prizes?

Feb. 1, 2016 11:14:26 AM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

"Beat the House (i.e. the store owner), win a booster"

As Scott Marshall and Brian Schenck said above, many months ago, this is not betting/gambling and is not in any way prohibited at any REL.

Edited Dan Collins (Feb. 1, 2016 11:14:36 AM)