My LGS has had an issue lately with our Tuesday tournaments ending much later than the TO would like, due to a large number of players going to time almost every round. He and I discussed possible ways to address the situation (not counting the obvious “encourage people to play faster” shtick):

1) Make the tournaments have 40 minute rounds rather than 50.
2) Have the tournament be one round less than recommended.
3) Enforce a Game Loss at 0 minutes.
4) End the match at time, and higher life total wins.

1 and 2 are both feasible solutions, and while they each have their drawbacks, there are ways to offset those (award prize based on match wins rather than place is the first that comes to mind). My concerns stem from options 3 and 4. Per the JAR, Game Losses for Tardiness are not used at Regular (just the Match Loss at 10 minutes), and I expressed my opinion that that would be too strict a penalty for a format based on fun and education.

However, my biggest question is about option 4. Is there any precedent to do what is being suggested? I know that's how it works in timed single elimination, but to my knowledge, there's no method to eliminate extra turns in Swiss.

Additional questions: Do any of you have problems with tournaments going over on a consistent basis? How do you handle the issue?

The second option is great - you can pay prizes based on record, and it doesn't matter that you didn't play the recommended number of rounds.

My LGS does 45m rounds for our Regular REL events (reasons relate to DC traffic and demographics) - I don't find it that disruptive. We don't have an unreasonable number of matches finish as draws, and players have become accustomed to playing faster.

I would not recommend option 3 - just be more firm with players who routinely show up late. You're not buying much extra time anyway.

And don't do option 4. The MTR isn't a menu you can order off of for sanctioned events. Plus you've got two much better options available!

My LGS always has 3 rounds for those tournaments (roughly between 8 and 20 players), and like John mentioned, pays prizes based on record. For example everyone with 3-0 gets 4 packs, everyone with 2-1 gets 2 packs.

I don't know any players in this store that are unhappy with that solution.

I really don't like your solutions 3) and 4), and I think 1) is also not great considering games already go to time.

Originally posted by Tobias Rolle:

My LGS always has 3 rounds for those tournaments (roughly between 8 and 20 players), and like John mentioned, pays prizes based on record. For example everyone with 3-0 gets 4 packs, everyone with 2-1 gets 2 packs.

I don't know any players in this store that are unhappy with that solution.

I really don't like your solutions 3) and 4), and I think 1) is also not great considering games already go to time.

In my defense, Options 3) and 4) were suggested by the TO, and argued against by me. I simply promised I'd look into it for him, despite being reasonably certain I wouldn't find anything.

Originally posted by Hank Wiest:

I simply promised I'd look into it for him

and now you can tell him, an ‘O’fficial source (hey, that's me!) said N-O-NO! to options 3 & 4. :)

Do the events always start on time, or do you have a lot of last-minute arrivals & signups?

Next Tuesday, with the TO present & listening, ask the players a few questions:
* can we start earlier? 30 minutes? 1 hour? (find out how many players he'd lose)
* we may have to shorten the rounds, starting next week (i.e., give them notice to not play slow decks)
* please, everyone do their part, to help us all get home earlier tonight.

If the TO can't be bothered to listen to that, then I don't envy you your challenge. Hopefully, he will appreciate that you and the players are all participating in solving the problem. Also, be careful with wording - what I wrote doesn't blame anyone, or even suggest that the TO is the one who has concerns.

d:^D

1) Make the tournaments have 40 minute rounds rather than 50.

So one of the stores in my area used to use this, under the idea that it would end tournaments faster. A bunch of us players that happened to be judges disagreed, and asked them to try out a couple of weeks with 50 minute rounds as a test; data is awesome!

They found that 50 minute rounds didn't actually save time, mainly because that extra 10 minutes prevented most matches from going to time! The store now runs 50 minute FNM rounds, and way more people are satisfied.

Running less rounds is probably the most effect method. It is a great
fit for less competitive events. Run the more competitive events when
their is sufficient time to run all the rounds, on the weekend.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:03 AM, Jeff S Higgins
<forum-22495-5d10@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
> 1) Make the tournaments have 40 minute rounds rather than 50.
>
>
> So one of the stores in my area used to use this, under the idea that it
> would end tournaments faster. A bunch of us players that happened to be
> judges disagreed, and asked them to try out a couple of weeks with 50 minute
> rounds as a test; data is awesome!
>
> They found that 50 minute rounds didn't actually save time, mainly because
> that extra 10 minutes prevented most matches from going to time! The store
> now runs 50 minute FNM rounds, and way more people are satisfied.
>
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–
Gareth Pye - blog.cerberos.id.au
Level 2 MTG Judge, Melbourne, Australia
“Dear God, I would like to file a bug report”

Originally posted by Hank Wiest:

2) Have the tournament be one round less than recommended.

At my LGS, regular weekly events (FNM, Monday Draft, etc.) are a fixed number of rounds, and prizes are based upon record. It introduces several measures of predictability, and makes it easier to scale for larger or smaller turnouts. As long as sanctioned, non-premier tournaments are at least 3 rounds (MTR 10.2), you don't need to slavishly adhere to Appendix E of the MTR.

I would recommend to do less rounds instead of less time per round.

I personally consider it one of the worst acts of customer service to shorten the time per round to 40 minutes. It has a significant effect on the ability to finish the round and will detract from the general experience.

My LGS has some incredibly slow players. At a recent event, over half of our matches went to turns every round. So our normal Thursday night standard tournament will only ever be a 4 round event, with pack/win prize support. We also give a couple of extra packs to the night's best performers. It usually kicks off around 7-7:15 and ends around 11:30. These events usually sit around 15-20 players. There is a big concern about slow play in my store, though. When we have a Comp REL event, several players regularly must be reminded of slow play.

Edited Adam Blaylock (Nov. 4, 2015 11:44:53 PM)