Atarka is playing Nissa at a competitive REL event. Nissa is at 6 life. Atarkas Controls Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. In her turn she taps jace for the first time in the Match. Nissa Wanst to be funny and says “no blocks”. Atarkas casts Become Immense, targeting jace and says “that's 6, you're dead”.

Which infraction, if any, have both Players committed? Imagine both Players have already used the shortcut of tapping creatures in order to attack without saying anything.

1. I would investigate Atarka for cheating. If I can't prove that she
didn't mean to attack,

2. Unfortunately CPV doesn't seem to apply here, so I'm not sure how I can
justify backup to the point of confusion in the declare blockers step. (I'm
taking Nissa's impression at face value after talking with her.) On the
other hand, Nissa is clearly not aware that combat has been entered, so I'm
very uncomfortable letting Atarka move the game past the declare blockers
step. Personally, I would backup to the declare blockers step with no
infraction.

Very interesting scenario, and I'm definitely looking forward to what the
more knowledgeable judges have to say. =D

2015-11-08 17:33 GMT-05:00 Dennis Nolting <

It's a very interesting situation.
I would also investigate Atarka for cheating, becouse tapping Jace witout saying anything is kinda wierd… but Atarka had Becomme Immese and making that attack was just a simple way to win. However it definitely wasn't funny for Nissa ;)

Do players often tap creatures without saying anything and what does that usually mean?

I would ask how Atarka tapped their Jace.Did they tap and slide it forward as people often do when attacking? Did they simply tap as one would when looting? I would also see if Atarka had made any attacks in recent turns and ask how they tapped those creatures at that time as well.
I know this doesn't conclude my investigation but it definitely helps me establish whether there was any clear intent behind the action.
Subject: Re: An immense Jace (Competitive REL)
From: forum-22603-e0fe@apps.magicjudges.org
To: sean_crain14@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 01:29:16 +0000

Do players often tap creatures without saying anything and what does
that usually
mean?

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How was A to know that N was “Just Kidding”? Where do we believe things went off track into a bad situation?

I've played a lot of matches where my opponent and I didn't speak very often, with that being said. I don't believe there's any grounds to inspect cheating because Atarka did nothing illegal. If she tapped Jace and didn't draw a card it would be reasonable to assume that jace is attacking (She might've just wanted to trigger raid). Nissa (joke or not) said no blockers. I would not rewind here because Nissa now knows about a combat trick and could block differently than she would've not knowing that information. Neither player did anything illegal I would instruct them that in the future if there is any confusion as to where they are in the turn to talk to each other. No penalties issued have them shuffle up for the next game.

The reason I would investigate for cheating is that I believe that Atarka
is quite possibly lying about the current gamestate to gain advantage if
she was actually using Jace's ability, but then pretended to be attacking
as soon as Nissa made her unfortunate joke.

2015-11-08 21:42 GMT-05:00 Brock Ullom <

This is very much a question that would require investigation. Depending on the specific actions that both players took, and the specific answer both players give, my answer could be anything from “NAP takes lethal damage” to “AP is disqualified for cheating”

There is a lack of content presented here to justify the need to
investigate for cheating.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 7:40 PM Eli Meyer <

Problem with investigation is that it regularly occurs that players tap their creatures without saying anything at all, meaning they are attacking. If that happened throughout this match, your investigation probably ends there, since it's not clear that this was an intentional attempt at sneaking in an attack.

As for the ruling, I think you can't let this action stand, even if it's just for the sake of precedence. If this was the way things worked, every time someone taps their Jace and pauses a second to draw their card, I'd snap put all my untapped creatures on it with the words ‘block like this’ and get a free Jace kill out of the deal.

So I feel a backup is pretty much required no matter what. It may not be technically Communication Policy Violation, but it's very much in line with the thought behind that infraction's additional remedy (backing up).

I think this should also be the case if NAP says ‘ok’ instead of ‘no blocks’, which again, is common communication when someone declares attacks and NAP is waiting for combat tricks/etc. to use their removal spell. But that may be fruit for thought for another thread.

Originally posted by Kurt Vooys:

As for the ruling, I think you can't let this action stand, even if it's just for the sake of precedence. If this was the way things worked, every time someone taps their Jace and pauses a second to draw their card, I'd snap put all my untapped creatures on it with the words ‘block like this’ and get a free Jace kill out of the deal.

If a player tried this I imagine their opponent would say “no I'm just looting” almost before they've let go of their first creature.

For those proposing a rewind, which point are we rewinding to? Where in the turn would we be?

Assuming that this situation was as it appears (Atarka tapped Jace for activation, then decided he was attacking in response to Nissa's Joke), I still can't find the justification for UCC. Atarka isn't 1) breaking a rule defined by the tournament documents, 2) lying to a tournament official, or 3) noticing an offense committed in his or her match without calling attention to it.

Am I missing something in the IPG? (Quite possible.)

Craig, is there a way within the rules Atarka can legally get Jace from being tapped to activate the ability to attacking?

I was at a standard PPTQ as a player last weekend. The situation didn't come up but there was a player playing jace (ok not just one i guess, but i was watching it in his games) where two opponents were doing the same thing Nissa did in the original situation. (So i made this situation up)
I asked several judges and there were some like “Of course i would step in” and also some (majority) like “everything ok, blame themselves for joking”.

Concerning the tapping for attacks thing: As I stated in the op both players have already tapped creatures without saying anything in order to attack.

Edited Dennis Nolting (Nov. 10, 2015 04:38:25 AM)