Hi,

I searched the forums and the internet and I couldn't find an answer.

Player A activates Gideon, Champion of Justice and attacks. Player B activate Olivia Voldaren to deal 1 damage and make Gideon a vampire.

During Player As' next turn, he activates Gideon again, and player B spends 3BB to gain control of it. Player A says it's no longer a vampire because Gideon stopped being a creature.

Is this correct?

This would make a great Judge Study Group question, and very timely given the current topic.

Player A is correct because there is no dependency between the type changing effects.

The vampire sub-type changing effect applies first and does nothing, then Gideon's type changing effect applies afterwards.

Gideon is not a vampire.

When Gideon is animated, there are two competing continuous effects trying to modify its type and or subtypes, so two effects that apply in layer 4.

If several effects apply in the same layer, you apply them in timestamp order, unless there is a dependency, in which case you apply the independent effect first.

The whole question is then to know if there is dependency between “becoming a creature” and “becoming a vampire.” Even though the result of “becoming a vampire” is different whether you apply the “become a creature” effect or not, what matters in order to have dependency is if what the effect _attempts to do_ is different. Here, what the effect attempts to do is setting the object's subtype to vampire, and this doesn't depend on whether the object is a creature or not.

The two effects are therefore applied in timestamp order. First Gideon becomes a vampire (which has no effect since it's not a creature nor a tribal at this moment), then it becomes a creature. In the end, it's not a vampire.

Daniel Kitachewsky
L3, Paris, France
MTGRules-L Netrep

From the forum protocol (see the link at the top of the page?):
“Got a rules question? Ask it here! Official answers will be given to rules questions in this forum. Keep discussion to a minimum; do not answer a question unless you are providing and Official answer.”

I'll be locking this thread, until an Official source provides an answer.

Thanks!

My old answer quoted by Todd still holds :)

Daniel Kitachewsky
L3, Paris, France
MTGRules-L Netrep