I agree with Adam, and emphasize that there needs to be a balance between helping the judge/getting things right and the flow of the tournament. Long detail and discussion can certainly wait until a time where it won't hold up the tournament.

Originally posted by Adam Jennings:

While I know that this could result in time extensions, and messing up the tournament timing, I feel it is our responsibility as fellow judges to help each other improve.

I think you'll find instruction and learning is better absorbed when there isn't pressure from the clock, and especially when people aren't waiting. Is there a reason you wouldn't just ensure a correct ruling was given, saving the discussion for after the game/event resumed?

Chris I probably wouldn't suggest involving yourself in a ruling at Comp REL while you are playing in a match. In your scenario you were playing against another judge, but realistically you would be pausing your own match to confer with your neighboring players or the involved judges.

At the very least this is slow play, and I would assume you didnt see everything.

I wouldnt suggest it…unless its an extreme case. Maybe talk to the judge between rounds. Sometimes you have to let judges get calls a little wrong, as a learning tool.

“He didnt tap his mana right for abzan charm? The spells fizzles, the mana is gone…and give me your cookie”

If a player did this, I would not count that as "taking longer than is
reasonably to complete game action*. The player is no longer playing the
game when he is conferring with a judge, even if it is about another match,
especially when the player is trying to be helpful. Would you penalize a
player for Slow Play for this?

2016-01-29 11:03 GMT-05:00 Jarrett Boutilier <

I can guarantee that it is not slow play to ask to speak to a judge about
an error you have noticed.

Originally posted by Chris Lansdell:

Let's say we're playing at a competitive REL event and the table next to us calls for a judge. We're between games and we're judges, so we listen in and the floor judge gets the call wrong. Neither player appeals.

Is it OK to suggest the players appeal? Are we obliged to step in? What should we do here?

Happened to me when I was the Judge who ruled wrongly. The senior judges (both my mentor and L2 who tested me for L1) signaled me aside to quiz me on my wrong ruling without giving me the correct answer after I paused the match. This was done quickly in 2 mins and I went back to the table to apologise for my wrong ruling and gave the correct ruling instead (with additional time given).

I absolutely would ask my opponent and the players involved to pause their matches and confer with the judge away from the table. Doing so shows a number of extremely positive things:
To the judge answering the call:
-You respect their decision and their authority enough to not contradict them in front of the players.
-You want them to learn and grow as a judge.
To the players involved in the match:
-Judges care about tournament integrity above all else.
-Judges treat each other with respect.
-Judges are observant.
-Judges will acquire as much information as possible to reach an informed decision.
To your opponent:
-Even when playing, you still prioritize upholding rules and policies consistently.
-You care about the game as a whole.

Considering the only real downside is a possible delay of a couple of minutes, that seems like a bargain to me!

Originally posted by Dominik Chłobowski:

If a player did this, I would not count that as "taking longer than is
reasonably to complete game action*. The player is no longer playing the
game when he is conferring with a judge, even if it is about another match,
especially when the player is trying to be helpful. Would you penalize a
player for Slow Play for this?

2016-01-29 11:03 GMT-05:00 Jarrett Boutilier <

I never got notified about getting a reply on the forum, sorry for the long reply.

Okay I suppose it would be very situational about how involved you were in the ruling. I guess it doesnt fit any of the listed reasonings for slow play, more so the philosophy behind it? Mostly the delay, its on that judge who messed up the ruling, but they would probably have to give out two time extensions.

I suppose I'll modify my original response “Hey, I'm also a judge, I would appeal that” and continue playing. Seems fine if the judge wants to involve you at that point, its up to them. Putting yourself into the ruling and trying to walk the judge through the ruling and the players, I wouldn't recommend.