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Competitive REL » Post: Another missed trigger and information type question

Another missed trigger and information type question

March 16, 2016 03:31:20 PM

Lev Kotlyar
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program))

Europe - North

Another missed trigger and information type question

Originally posted by Toby Elliott:

For those who believe that “What triggered this turn?” is Free information, are you prepared to issue a penalty when someone forgets to mention that draw trigger that happened in upkeep?

An important word in “Details of past game actions” is *Details*. You point to the action you're asking about and get the detail you need. “What did you target with that?”, “What mana did you use to pay for that?” “Did you choose to use Eldrazi Mimics ability?” They are the questions you must know the answers to to derive the current game state (and yes, part of that current game state is assuming that triggers were remembered).

The correct way to handle the Bladewhirl is to assume that all creatures have first strike. Or block and hope you get lucky.


This example from Annotated IPG (http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg2-1/) is misleading then:

Suppose Amaranth controls Cathedral of War and attacks with her single 2/2 Bear Cub, proceeding through to the declare blockers step without mentioning the triggered ability. After declaring blockers, Niles considers casting Shock targeting the unblocked Bear Cub.

Alternatively, Niles could first ask Amaranth if any abilities have modified Bear Cub’s toughness. This is free information, so Amaranth would be required to answer it honestly and completely. With this option, the point at which Cathedral of War’s trigger would first matter would be when Amaranth answers the question.

This may seem somewhat unsatisfactory to Niles, since asking questions about the toughness of the Bear Cub might remind Amaranth about her trigger and give her one last opportunity to acknowledge it. However, as the IPG says, “triggered abilities are assumed to be remembered until otherwise indicated.” Niles should be reminded of this by judges as needed.

March 16, 2016 03:40:05 PM

Gilles Demarle
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

France

Another missed trigger and information type question

It's not misleading: The question is another form of “what is the actual toughness of the bear cub?” and you're suppose to answer that correctly.

In other words, in this thread scenario, the question would have been “is there any abilities that gave first strike to your creatures ?”, your opponent says “yes” then his creatures have first strike, he says “no”, then he forgot and they don't.

March 16, 2016 03:46:47 PM

Toby Elliott
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Another missed trigger and information type question

Originally posted by Lev Kotlyar:

This example from Annotated IPG (http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg2-1/) is misleading then:

I agree. I'll ping them on that.

March 16, 2016 08:36:49 PM

Bryan Prillaman
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southeast

Another missed trigger and information type question

One of the cool things about being the AIPG Lead is seeing when people use your document in discussions.

One of the not cool things is when you see something it says that you disagree with quoted in an argument

However, there is one more cool thing about being the lead….

I can fix things.

So, If you wanna know the creatures P/T, ask the opponent. If they dont answer, then you can be pretty sure they remembered. If they do answer, then you know if they remembered their trigger. If you don't like that, if you are upset that you have to practically remind the player of their trigger…well, the Missed Trigger policy isn't designed to give you the right to trick someone into missing their trigger. #sorrynotsorry