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Competitive REL » Post: Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

May 15, 2016 09:46:58 PM

Gregory Titov
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

Alan is chosen for a random deck check in a GPT you are head Judging, you get his deck (in a box) and bring it back to your Judgestation™ for the fun part.

In the player's box (Let's say it's a G/W deck) there are 60 + 15 cards in purple sleeves, a few tokens, and a few un-sleeved cards in the deck's colors.

The IPG (3.5) says “Cards that are obviously not part of the deck (e.g. cards in different sleeves, tokens) are ignored when determining deck legality,” so do you simply ignore these cards? Ask a few questions? Where do you go from discovering this?

!BONUS!
A player has 60 purple sleeved cards, and then an additional 15 with half the cards unsleeved. They didn't say anything to you when you grabbed their deck to clarify “Hey, I only had 67 sleeves”, but their list does have the 15 cards (sleeved + un-sleeved) marked down. D/DLP? Friendly words suggesting he clarify this in the future?

Edited Gregory Titov (May 15, 2016 09:48:01 PM)

May 15, 2016 10:03:50 PM

Sean Crain
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

Australia and New Zealand

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

This is still D/DL game loss. Other threads have confirmed that the line referring to cards obviously not part of the deck is used to refer to cards that may have come from opponents decks or other such places. If they have cards that could conceivably be played in their deck box that isn't a promo from the event or DFCs then it's game loss territory.
For Q2Only having half the SB cards sleeved isn't a problem this happens a lot. Especially if a sleeve breaks halfway through, it's not unusual to just grab a sideboard card sleeve and leave it unsleeved until needed and swap the sleeve on the fly.

Subject: Is “no sleeve” a different sleeve? (Competitive REL)
From: forum-27156-6f7b@apps.magicjudges.org
To: sean_crain14@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 02:47:16 +0000

Alan is chosen for a random deck check, you get his deck (in a box)
and bring it back to your Judgestation™ for the fun part.

In
the player's box (Let's say it's a G/W deck) there are 60 + 15 cards
in purple sleeves, a few tokens, and a few un-sleeved cards in the
deck's colors.

The IPG (3.5) says “Cards that are
obviously not part of the deck (e.g. cards in different sleeves,
tokens) are ignored when determining deck legality,” so do you
simply ignore these cards? Ask a few questions? Where do you go from
discovering this?

!BONUS!
A player has 60 purple sleeved
cards, and then an additional 15 with half the cards unsleeved. They
didn't say anything to you when you grabbed their deck to clarify
“Hey, I only had 67 sleeves”, but their list does have the
15 cards (sleeved + un-sleeved) marked down. D/DLP? Friendly words
suggesting he clarify this in the
future?

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May 15, 2016 10:13:47 PM

Gregory Titov
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

Originally posted by Sean Crain:

This is still D/DL game loss. Other threads have confirmed that the line referring to cards obviously not part of the deck is used to refer to cards that may have come from opponents decks or other such places. If they have cards that could conceivably be played in their deck box that isn't a promo from the event or DFCs then it's game loss territory.

The ‘GP Promo’ bit I was aware of, any links to those threads though? I'm terrible at searching forums for certain threads.

May 15, 2016 10:21:31 PM

Sean Crain
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

Australia and New Zealand

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

May 16, 2016 05:22:36 AM

Johannes Wagner
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

If you read the part under Philosophy for that infraction you can find the following, making it more clear:

Additionally, if there are extra cards stored with the sideboard that could conceivably be played in the player’s deck, they will be considered a part of the sideboard unless they are:
Promotional cards that have been handed out as part of the tournament.
Double-faced cards represented by checklist cards in the deck.
Double-faced cards being used to represent the ‘night’ side of cards in the deck.

These cards must not be sleeved in the same way as cards in the main deck and/or sideboard.

May 16, 2016 10:24:50 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Is "no sleeve" a different sleeve?

I resisted for a couple days, but I just *have* to nitpick… (it's what I do best!)

Policy doesn't mention “a different sleeve”, except as an example (what you quoted). The clause that matters is “The cards must not be sleeved in the same way…” - and “different sleeve” is not the same as “sleeved differently”; I would state that “no sleeves” is “sleeved differently”. :)

d:^D