Welcome back to Knowledge Pool everyone! We had a great Gold week last week, and now we return to Silver. L2s should wait until Friday to join in.

At a modern PPTQ Atari is playing against Nintendo. On her first turn Atari plays an Island and passes the turn. Nintendo plays a Darksteel Citadel and a Lantern of Insight and passes after both players have revealed their top cards. During Nintendo's end step Atari casts Thought Scour targeting herself, it resolves and she puts the top 3 cards into her graveyard, then flips the next card on top of her library, and then begins to draw that card. As she is drawing, Nintendo realizes what has happened, stops her and calls a Judge.

What do you do?

We have a case of Games Rule Violation by Atari (that looks like it might be other things… “If cards are placed into a public zone, then their order is known and the infraction can be handled as a Game Rule Violation.” Per IPG on HCE.).

Nintendo caught the action quickly enough that there is no penalty to them.

So, having identified the penalty. It's a question of the fix. While we don't consider the board state in determining if a penalty has happened. There are times when it can inform the fix. In this case, we have at the top of the GY that should have both been drawn (and revealed to the opponent via the lantern). We also have a card that was revealed and almost drawn at the the top of the library…which should be revealed and at the top of the library.

The IPG allows for a few partical fixes. One applies here: “If an object is in an incorrect zone either due to a required zone change being missed or due to being put into the wrong zone during a zone change, the identity of the object was known to all players, and it can be moved with only minor disruption to the current state of the game, put the object in the correct zone.”

Simply move that card from the gy to the player's hand. Note the time, give the extension, and mark the match slip with the warning.

Thanks for the clear explanation, Mark! Just to help me wrap my head around this a little more– if there were no Lantern of Insight (such that Atari did not flip the fourth card face up before beginning to draw it), do the infraction, penalty, and fix all end up being the same?

Logan, let's not detour so early from initial scenario ;)

Sorry! :) In any case, Mark's solution looks good to me.

Since all the information is public due to lantern of insight no HCE can be
applied here so I would rule GRV and the warning for Atari for putting
three cards in the graveyard instead of two and would put the first card of
Atari's Graveyard on the top of their deck and make them draw that card
instead.

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, 19:36 Logan Anbinder <
forum-38072-416f@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> Sorry! :) In any case, Mark's solution looks good to me.
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Ferran Jovell Megias

I would add asking about the order the three cards went into the graveyard. We cannot assume the top card was going to be the card Atari would have drawn without the error.

3.14 Graveyard Order
In formats involving only cards from Urza’s SagaTM and later, players may change the order of their graveyard at any time. A player may not change the order of an opponent’s graveyard.

The format is Modern. Atari may have changed the order the three cards were in the graveyard or even with other cards.

Originally posted by CoriAnn Theroux:

I would add asking about the order the three cards went into the graveyard. We cannot assume the top card was going to be the card Atari would have drawn without the error.

The format is Modern. Atari may have changed the order the three cards were in the graveyard or even with other cards.

You make a solid point. (Wish there were a like or thumbs up feature on the forum).

I wish there was those features as well. I find many excellent points people have made and wish to have a way to passively acknowledge them.

I always remember the graveyard bit. As an old school magic player, it came as a great shock to find out (after a significant break from magic) the graveyard order can be changed in certain formats. I still have to check myself when an opponent moves cards around. It helps to remember what formats changing graveyard order is legal in.

Thanks again for all the participation again this week.

Mark has once again gotten straight to the point.

Atari receives a Warning for a Game Rule Violation. She has put an extra card into her graveyard with Thought Scour. As all the cards are revealed, almost drawing the top card is not an infraction.

This GRV partial fix applies: "If an object is in an incorrect zone either due to a required zone change being missed or due to being put into the wrong zone during a zone change, the identity of the object was known to all players, and it can be moved with only minor disruption to the current state of the game, put the object in the correct zone.”

Move the 3rd card put into the graveyard into Atari's hand, make sure the card that Atari was about to draw is put back on top, and let the game continue.