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Competitive REL » Post: Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

June 3, 2013 06:25:18 AM

Kenny Koornneef
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

BeNeLux

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

I just saw that Pardic Dragon is part of Modern Masters and thought “Oh hello Missed Trigger rules, how are you?”
This is just purely out of interest, but how is this card going to be handled at competitive? It seems to me that the intention of the card is to allow opponents to forget the trigger, but with the current rules the owner must point it out every time. I'm sure some players will think it's their opponents responsibility.

June 3, 2013 07:04:13 AM

José Moreira
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

Iberia

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

"Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if Pardic Dragon is suspended, that player may put a time counter on Pardic Dragon."

The opp is not the one responsible for the trigger ?

June 3, 2013 08:09:57 AM

David Záleský
Judge (Uncertified)

Europe - Central

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

No, the controller (or owner in case of suspended card) is always
responsible. The same way as with Rhystic Study.


2013/6/3 José Moreira <forum-4429-d60d@apps.magicjudges.org>

June 3, 2013 08:39:54 AM

Mark Mc Govern
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

It reads to me like a generally detrimental trigger controlled by the Dragons controller. So a warning if they don't say anything. Not sure how it was ruled back in the day though.

June 3, 2013 09:07:59 AM

Jacob Faturechi
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

The controller of an ability is the controller of the object that created
it. This is true, even if it requires a choice from another player.
On Jun 3, 2013 3:00 AM, “José Moreira” <forum-4429-65f4@apps.magicjudges.org>
wrote:

June 3, 2013 06:14:07 PM

Bret Siakel
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific Northwest

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

Maybe better wording for this card (and similar) would be something like this:

"Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if Pardic Dragon is suspended, that player may choose to place a time counter on Pardic Dragon."

That helps breaking out the responsibility of choice vs. ownership of the trigger.

Just my thoughts. :P

June 3, 2013 06:25:04 PM

Casey Brefka
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - South Central

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

Originally posted by Bret Siakel:

Maybe better wording for this card (and similar) would be something like this:

"Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if Pardic Dragon is suspended, that player may choose to place a time counter on Pardic Dragon."

That helps breaking out the responsibility of choice vs. ownership of the trigger.

Just my thoughts. :P

That actually wouldn't change anything. The controller of Pardic Dragon still controls the trigger, so it's still his responsibility to point it out.

June 3, 2013 06:43:05 PM

David Hibbs
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southwest

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

Originally posted by Bret Siakel:

Maybe better wording for this card (and similar) would be something like this:

"Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if Pardic Dragon is suspended, that player may choose to place a time counter on Pardic Dragon."

First, including the word “may” implies a choice anyway.
Second, let's not speculate on *potential* templating changes; at the end of the day, that's up to R&D. So, let's stick with the Oracle wordings when discussing actual cards and rulings.

As noted, the controller of an ability is the controller of the object that created it–i.e. the controller of the Pardic Dragon is responsible for it. Generally, that controller would prefer to not have it resolve so that the dragon can enter the battlefield. Seems like a detrimental trigger to me.

June 4, 2013 11:38:57 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Pardic Dragon @ GP Las Vegas

The controller of Pardic Dragon has to point out that trigger; that really hasn't changed, even though it may not have been as clear to even judges, before.

And Kenny's point about players misunderstanding, and thus getting a Warning for Missed Trigger, is a fair point. However, even players who don't know how it works will probably correctly evaluate that card - it's a 4/4, Firebreathing flier for 4RR. That's all. Suspending it for RR in hopes of your opponent missing that trigger is almost as bad a play as actually missing the trigger (and getting the Warning)… (heh)

And, for the few cases where it actually comes up, those players will learn a valuable lesson - not only about Missed Triggers, but also strategy (don't make plays that depend on your opponent being an idiot).

TL;DR: please enforce our Missed Trigger policy in order to educate players.