Does the ‘combat’ shortcut follow the same empty stack implication as the ‘go’ shortcut, that the active player is presumed to be passing priority in the beginning of combat step with an empty stack? So if I control an Angelic Skirmisher and say ‘combat?’ I missed my trigger?

You are allowed to apply a little common sense in this case. If the player
says “combat” and start turning creatures sideways, he missed it. If he
says “combat” then says, “lifelink” he didn't.

Most players aren't going to say, “Move to beginning of combat, my Angel triggers”. They're just going to use the much more common “Move to combat?” “Okay” “Okay, my angel gives my dudes lifelink/first strike/vigilance”. As long as the active player resolves the Skirmisher trigger in that case before he turns any dudes sideways, then he hasn't missed his trigger.

If the player doesn't even say the word combat, and just turns guys sideways, while tapping the skirmisher and saying “lifelink”, I'm still going to give him that trigger, since that would fall under OoOS.

Nothing in the tournament shortcut for go or combat states the stack is empty. In fact, it just states “opponent has priority during the relevant step. It is assumed the the player did not forget the trigger until they take a game action past the point at which the trigger should have resolved.

If the player goes ”combat - trigger, that is fine“, but if he goes ”combat, and then taps his creature to attack" he has missed the trigger.

This trigger is the as the howlpack alpha end step trigger (in a question I asked about a few weeks ago)

Read literally, the various shortcuts in the MTR dealing with “passing priority until an opponent has it” mean you're passing until the first time the opponent gets priority. If interpreted this way, you have certainly not missed your trigger.

Philosophically, I believe those shortcuts were written to mean “your opponent has one last chance to do something before we move onto the next step”. That is, if your opponent passes priority back, then we are now in Declare Attackers (or Cleanup, or Second Main). If interpreted this way, then it's possible the trigger was missed. OoOS may still apply here, but it's no longer as clear.

(Of course, my interpretation of the shortcuts could be incorrect.)

Originally posted by Joshua Feingold:

You are allowed to apply a little common sense in this case. If the player
says “combat” and start turning creatures sideways, he missed it. If he
says “combat” then says, “lifelink” he didn't.

Ok, this might be a little offtopic, but thinking on the missed trigger rules ~ forgotten till it has effects on the game.

If i attack and on damage i will say “gain x lifelink” or “your creature dies first strike” vigilance is the only one that is noticeable.

Originally posted by José Moreira:

If i attack and on damage i will say “gain x lifelink” or “your creature dies first strike” vigilance is the only one that is noticeable.

Angelic Skirmisher's ability falls under the second type of trigger in the Missed Trigger policy, specifically, “a triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution.”

As a result, the controller of the Skirmisher has to make a choice about the ability gained before turning his guys sideways (although out-of-order-sequencing can still apply, as mentioned above).

Originally posted by José Moreira:

Joshua Feingold
You are allowed to apply a little common sense in this case. If the player
says “combat” and start turning creatures sideways, he missed it. If he
says “combat” then says, “lifelink” he didn't.

Ok, this might be a little offtopic, but thinking on the missed trigger rules ~ forgotten till it has effects on the game.

If i attack and on damage i will say “gain x lifelink” or “your creature dies first strike” vigilance is the only one that is noticeable.

Not quite.

IPG
*A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or make it clear what the action taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly moving to the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.

Angelic Skirmisher's trigger requires a choice upon resolution, so it must be made before any dudes are turned sideways (or not, in the case of vigilance).

Yeah, get it. ty.

* going silently do another read of the ipg *

What if defending player controls the skirmisher and AP asks “combat?” and NAP answers “ok.” Did he miss the skirmisher trigger by then when AP starts turning his guys sideways?

Originally posted by Christian Genz:

What if defending player controls the skirmisher and AP asks “combat?” and NAP answers “ok.” Did he miss the skirmisher trigger by then when AP starts turning his guys sideways?

I think this question, and most others, just need to be answered with the general: You have to investigate and assess the situation. Keep in mind that regardless of what the rules/policy say, players still play in as organic a way as possible. That is, they try to do things in a general way, that naturally makes sense to them. This means that they don't always follow things in the most technical way.

So, you have to ask the question: What does NAP's statement mean here. Did NAP accept that AP can move to the declare attackers step, skipping the trigger? Did that statement from NAP simply meant that AP's “shortcut” was accepted? Is it just an acknowledgment of what AP wants to do? Not all people speak the same way, so what “Ok” means to you isn't necessarily what it means to NAP.

You'll have to make a judgment call on that, once you've gathered information. I think that in this kind of situation, if NAP clearly interrupts AP with some kind of “Wait, I was still thinking about what to do.” then it's clear the game hasn't proceeded to the next step. Thus, the trigger hasn't been missed. Since NAP's limited to casting instants and activating abilities at this point, you'll need a bit more evidence that the trigger was missed aside from “Ok”.

I'd like to see NAP say something no later than when AP starts to turn attackers sideways, but that includes saying “I'll go with First Strike” as the first attacker(s) are tapped.

Magic (as it is actually played) involves a LOT of shortcuts, which - as Brian noted - is really just imprecise play. Toby Elliott likes to tell judges to play a few turns exactly, technically correctly - then you'll truly understand why we have to allow things like OoOS and shortcuts.

We had to establish a few standard shortcuts to protect players. However, most shortcuts are simply seen by the players as “how the game is played” - but some result in uncertainty about the exact state of the game.

By just saying “OK”, NAP is accepting AP's (standard) shortcut into the Combat Phase; at this point, the Skirmisher's trigger is on the stack, and if no one responds to it, NAP needs to make his choice before anything else happens. That's the technically precise version; the reality is, AP will say Combat as he reaches for his attackers, NAP will say “OK … I'll choose Lifelink” as AP is attacking, and everything's just fine.

But every now and then, AP will think “oh, I can abuse his imprecise play to my advantage” … “Judge! He missed his trigger!!!” And then, as Brian said - investigate and handle it according to what you truly believe was going on, and whether or not you believe NAP truly missed the trigger.