An interesting scenario arose after the finals of a recent PPTQ that I judged.

The winner of the final approached me after the match and asked me if there was any way they could have asked their opponent if they both wanted to attend the team RPTQ together.

Is there any way that a player can ask this in a way that would not result in a DQ.

For example saying “Regardless of the outcome of this match, shall we both go to the RPTQ together?”

The player in question told me that they didn't want to ask anything as they didn't want to risk the DQ, but in hindsight, I'm not sure what I would have recommended/answered if asked what they could/couldn't say.

This is obviously something that is likely to come up this season and so I thought opening a discussion would be worthwhile.

(locked pending ‘O’ answer)

Sorry for the delay - as you might imagine, there's not a lot of precedence (OK, none) to work with.

Think of the opportunity to invite someone to be on your team as a form of incentive; since the winner gets that opportunity, it's fair to look at that as part of what they win - i.e., part of the prizes. Looking at this with that perspective, you can apply normal Bribery rules.

“I'll concede if you put me on your RPTQ team” –> no different than “I'll concede if you give me the boosters”.
And, flipping it around:
“Want to split prizes?” is just fine, so I'm OK with “Want to team up together at the RPTQ?”.

d:^D

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

“I'll concede if you put me on your RPTQ team” –> no different than “I'll concede if you give me the boosters”.

And both declarations are OK in finals (and only in finals), correct?

Francesco,

A declaration of “I'll concede if you give me the boosters which you are supposed to get as the prize (and have not received them already)” is within the rules for a final match.

A declaration of “I'll concede if you put me on your RPTQ team” is considered Bribery even in the finals, as the players are bringing something external to the agreement.

Scott could have been a bit clearer here, I believe.

Edited Milan Majerčík (Feb. 14, 2018 07:58:23 AM)

Originally posted by Milan Majerčík:

Francesco,

A declaration of “I'll concede if you give me the boosters which you are supposed to get as the prize (and have not received them already)” is within the rules for a final match.

A declaration of “I'll concede if you put me on your RPTQ team” is considered Bribery even in the finals, as the players are bringing something external to the agreement.

Scott could have been a bit clearer here, I believe.

OK, this is exactly the opposite of what I read Scott's post to be. So I think we need Scott to confirm before anyone draws any conclusions from this thread.

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

“I'll concede if you put me on your RPTQ team” –> no different than “I'll concede if you give me the boosters”.

Note that such agreements can only be allowed “in the announced last round of the single-elimination portion of a tournament”; prior to that, either is Bribery.

Of course, one player actually drops from the event - not really a concession - and the invite goes to the winner. In these odd team RPTQ scenarios, the winner of that invite gets to choose two teammates as part of their prize, which can be shared with the opponent who dropped in order for them to win.

Sorry that it wasn't as clear in writing as it was in my head! :D

d:^D

It is clear, Scott, thank you. What is less clear to me is how being part
of a team at the RPTQ is different from the promo of the RPTQ itself, which
we know cannot be part of the deal.

Aru

Hi Scott,

I am a bit confused. Why has the stance changed from the last time we discussed this scenario on the forums ( https://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/topic/37035/)?

Or am I missing something?

I read this thread and I think it lacks a conclusion.
Scott, can you give us a final answer, please?

Aruna: because the promo you will receive at the RPTQ is not part of the prize pool for the PPTQ.

Milan: because decisions can be changed, after further consideration.

Jorge: sorry, I didn't think so, but I can see why the above questions might make you think my answer wasn't final; it is. However, I apologize for not answering those previous questions.

d:^D

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

because the promo you will receive at the RPTQ is not part of the prize pool for the PPTQ.

The ability to be a team mate at the RPTQ is not part of the PPTQ prize pool either. What's the difference between the two, such that we allow an offer including the former, but not the latter?

I think the line is that the RPTQ promo is explicitly attached to another event (the RPTQ), while the tangible prizes of the PPTQ are not. Merely winning the PPTQ doesn't automatically grant you the RPTQ promo, you still have to actually attend the RPTQ to get it. I'll grant that being able to choose teammates at the RPTQ does occupy a hazy middle ground on this understanding, but winning the PPTQ does directly entitle you to choose your teammates for the RPTQ, even though attending the RPTQ is required to make that choice meaningful.

Originally posted by Isaac King:

The ability to be a team mate at the RPTQ is not part of the PPTQ prize pool either.

Wizards disagrees with you (so do I, but that's beside the point). One of the things you gain by winning these PPTQs is the right to pick your team.

As Andrew mentioned, the RPTQ promo is not awarded at the PPTQ, and this can't be considered part of the prize pool. “Choose your team!” very definitely is part of the PPTQ prize pool.

* * *

I believe it's time to call “HORSE!” on this - as in, we've beaten this dead horse long enough, and y'all have the ‘O’fficial answer.

d:^D

Edited Scott Marshall (July 27, 2018 02:21:31 AM)