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Competitive REL » Post: Bribery?

Bribery?

July 28, 2013 02:56:22 AM

Michael White
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Bribery?

I was just asked an interesting question by a Tournament Organizer that the IPG seems a little bit murky on.

The TO would like to encourage players to play out their matches instead of drawing into the Top 8 at some competitive tournaments they run (GPTs specifically, but might as well apply this to other events if it's allowed).

He knows he can't forbid players to ID, but he wanted to know if he's allowed to offer incentive for them to play it out. Specifically he wants to know if at the beginning of the final swiss round, is he allowed to approach the players who could ID into top 8 and tell them that both players will receive an additional equal prize (beyond the advertised payout) if their match does not end in a draw or a DQ.

A player offers an incentive to entice an opponent into conceding, drawing, or changing the results of a match, or accepts such an offer. Refer to the Magic Tournament Rules for a more detailed description of what constitutes bribery.

To me, it seems like since the players haven't played the match yet, we're not changing the results of a match, so it should be OK, but it's really skirting the line.

Any thoughts on this situation?

July 28, 2013 03:07:42 AM

Jacob Faturechi
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Bribery?

I think you can get rid of any question by having an initial prize
structure that already achieves this. It is very easy to incentivize
playing each match by giving out prizes per match win. The prize
structure does not have to be by the standing from WER except for the
byes. Everything else is at the TOs discretion. If he wants to give an
extra prize to all players who make Top 8 without drawing in the last
2 rounds, he can. Just announce it first.

July 28, 2013 03:51:33 AM

John Carter
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Tournament Organizer

USA - Pacific Northwest

Bribery?

I'd strongly advise against a TO offering special prizes for not drawing.

The bribery section talks about players and specifically avoids talking about TOs, so the impression is that a TO can “bribe.” This is somewhat true, but not intended as Michael White's TO suggests. TO “bribery” exists so a TO can modify their event operations in order to accommodate circumstances at an event. The most common example is a TO who is running a normal Swiss event, and their venue has hours of operation (or a hours after which the TO pays penalties). The TO might offer to bump up all the prizes for the top whatever so the players draw and don't cause the TO to suffer significant problems with the venue. (1 = 1 box, 2 = 3/4 box, 3 - 4 = 1/2 box, 5 - 8 = 1/4 box all become 1 - 8 = 1 box, for example.)

Be careful of “since the players haven't played the match yet, we're not changing the results of a match.” If a player said, “Yes, I offered him a box to scoop, but we hadn't played the match yet, so there weren't results to change,” I suspect we'd all bounce that guy in a heartbeat. Bribery can occur–among players–before or during matches at any time.

The problem with a TO trying to do what Michael describes is that there's a high potential for the appearance of shadiness that could easily and negatively affect the TO's reputation and the reputation of those who associate with the TO. Does the TO really care if the two undefeateds draw? He shouldn't because they're locked anyway. So he'll only offer bonuses to some of the people who “could ID”? Will these bonuses been seen as favoring his friends or better customers? Will trying to force play and thereby have winners and losers such that some ID folks play and get knocked be seen as favoring friends or better customers who might make the T8 now when they couldn't have with IDs? Are those bonuses legitimately part of the prize pool that the TO keeps for himself if the players refuse to fight? Or is the TO just throwing away profit because draws irritate him?

As Jacob points out, there are ways a TO can incentivize fewer draws. My favorite is by making prize payouts except any byes (GPT) or invites (PTQ) based on the Swiss standings. You want better prizes? Fight!

Additionally, a TO can make a prize structure based purely on Swiss points and round down round. For example using a 5 round event, 15 pts. = X, 13 - 12 pts. = Y, 11 - 9 pts. = Z, etc. This means that a draw effectively knocks you down one level of prize payout. The more a TO wants to hate IDs, the bigger the gap between levels. So in our example, two players at 12 pts. have to think real hard about whether to draw because doing so means neither gets any more packs where playing means one of them gets the difference between X and Y more packs. Two players at 9 (3-1) or 10 (3-0-1) get no more packs if they draw the fifth round.

Do be aware that this Swiss-record-only method incentivizes actual bribery. “Hey, we're going to draw because we're out of time, but if you scoop to me, we can split the extra packs.” Michael's TO's method also induces real bribery.

My suggestion for Michael would be to consider the Swiss results payout for events and have a talk with the TO about the nature of IDs in Magic. We've looked at trying to get rid of IDs, and there's just not a solution. The real issue with people not liking IDs in the last round is that they're only looking at the last round. The ability to ID into the top slots isn't a bonus a player gets in the last round–it's their reward for having played many rounds successfully. Those players earned their slots in the rounds before. If a player doesn't like not getting into the top, then win more.

July 28, 2013 04:18:30 PM

Callum Milne
Forum Moderator
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Western Provinces

Bribery?

It might be useful to remember that the TO already has the option of using the alternative play/draw rule in the Top 8 to incentivize playing games out in the Swiss: the player who was ranked higher in the Swiss chooses play/draw in the first game of each Top 8 match. He just has to announce beforehand that he's doing this.

July 28, 2013 05:39:52 PM

Andrew Heckt
Judge (Uncertified)

Italy and Malta

Bribery?

Beyond the very good advice of Carter, Jacob and others, possibly explain to the TO that players who do really well have even ‘earned’ the ability to draw because of how the point system is structured.


________________________________
From: Callum Milne
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 7:19 AM
To: Heckt, Andy
Subject: Re: Bribery? (Competitive REL)

It might be useful to remember that the TO already has the option of using the alternative play/draw rule in the Top 8 to incentivize playing games out in the Swiss: the player who was ranked higher in the Swiss chooses play/draw in the first game of each Top 8 match. He just has to announce beforehand that he's doing this.

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July 28, 2013 07:32:06 PM

Jacob Faturechi
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Bribery?

I must say that one of the reasons people feel icky about it is that
it smacks of collusion. And when you get down to it, it is collusion.
But it is not a form of collusion we can do anything about, just like
when friends concede to each other.