Which is a must according to the TR:

Before each game begins, players must present their sideboard (if any) face down and, if requested, allow their opponents to count the number of cards in their sideboard. Players are not required to reveal how many cards they have swapped from their main deck to their sideboard.

However, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that. Why is it still worded as a must in the TR if it is never (in my experience) applied or enforced?

As far as I am aware a player can pass you 70 cards first game. In theory that is okay, technicly at that time you don't -need- to know how many sideboard cards he is playing.

But assume to the following scenario:

So your opponent presented 70 cards G1, and has 10 sideboard cards. It would be easy for your opponent to play 60/20 after sideboard. His sideboard would be faulty, so that is the reason why you can ask of your opponent to let him show you his sideboard.

Edited Niki Lin (Nov. 20, 2013 09:57:59 PM)

Yeah I can see the use for the ‘requested’ part so why isn't it worded as something like:

“Before each game begins, players may request to count the number of cards in their opponents' sideboard face down. Players are not required to reveal how many cards they have swapped from their main deck to their sideboard.”

If players didn't have to present their SBs, then they could have the cards
mixed together with all the other cards that they have in their possession.
It becomes much more difficult for an opponent to tell that someone isn't
pulling cards from a larger pool of cards if they don't present their SB.
For the most part, if a player has their SB in their deckbox on the table,
it is considered to be presented. However, we want to encourage players to
actively keep their SB separate from the rest of their cards.

Originally posted by Shawn Doherty:

For the most part, if a player has their SB in their deckbox on the table,
it is considered to be presented.

Ah ok in that case I see sideboards being presented all the time =)

It depends on where you play - in some places, sideboards are presented (as in properly presented, fanned out on the table) as standard before each game - even at FNM.

I suspect from personal experience that it mainly breaks down by country.

A savvy opponent will ask, maybe “can I count your sideboard” (the answer is yes - like it or not), or at least “is that / where is your sideboard?”.

As Judges, we have the power to increase the number of savvy opponents, and thus help enforce this policy. It's an important one, if only to avoid the “one sideboard per pocket” cheat.

And, of course, I feel obligated to remind everyone - there isn't an infraction in the IPG for not presenting your sideboard. If it's an issue, provide the player with a “direct instruction from a tournament official”.

d:^D

I, and many many other judges, have handed out many game losses from players not following this requirement. It's what happens when you do a deck check and when grabbing their deck box you find there is their 15 card sideboard along with extra cards.

Would it be unreasonable to combat one sideboard in each pocket with if the sideboard isn't on the table at the start of round then its a 0 card sideboard?

It probably would be unreasonable, but I think it would be right if they have left an empty deck box on the table. It is a fair and reasonable assumption for the opponent to make that the sideboard is still in the deck box.


And thus ends my random rambling of the morning.

In another TCG, the most common way to present Sideboards/extra cards is to clearly announce it prior to the match. If that didn't happen, the player simply didn't present such (which is also legal but usually the bad choice).

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

A savvy opponent will ask, maybe “can I count your sideboard” (the answer is yes - like it or not), or at least “is that / where is your sideboard?”.
d:^D

Uncle Scott! A Question!

Can a player actually ask for this? I can certainly ask for them to fulfill the “present a sideboard” portion of the CR, but can I count it?

During a recent discussion with some judge-friends, we were talking about derived information and whether misrepresenting the number of cards in a sideboard would count as misrepresentation for the purposes of Communication Policy Violation.

According to the Comprehensive Rules, the sideboard is your designated cards assigned for a tournament, but they are outside of the game, and do not occupy a game zone. Following which, the number of cards in that zone cannot be considered derived information, as the number of objects in a game zone is the specified requirement for consideration.

Now, on my end, I argue that misrepresenting this information would be against the spirit of the rules in such a case; however, that doesn't mean we can necessarily penalize for such.

@Kyle Ryc: Read Toby Hazes initial post. In that post there is a quote from the MTR rule 3.15 dealing with sideboards. It states the opponent can count the sideboard when presented.

However I think you have a good point about whether the number of cards in a sideboard is derived information, since it is not a part of any of the game zones. So while the opponent can indeed count the number of cards when presenting, they may not be able to once the game actually begins.

We don't define if the number of cards in a sideboard are free, derived or private - because it really doesn't matter. The fact that the opponent can count the sideboard eliminates any concern about this.