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Competitive REL » Post: Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

Feb. 8, 2014 02:02:36 AM

Paul Baranay
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

Originally posted by Chris Nowak:

With context and English making such strange bedfellows though, I think I still prefer to err on the side of fewer words. “Sure, that would have been a legal play” encapsulates the “yes” and the “this is in the past” aspects without as much potential for introducing my own contexts inadvertently.

I totally agree with this! Great insight.

Feb. 11, 2014 01:13:15 AM

Joshua Feingold
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

A couple people have mentioned the term “special action.”

When you say that, do you just mean that suspending a card is “special,” because it isn't like other “actions?” Or is a “special action” a concept that perhaps has a broader rules meaning that you could potentially tie into your answer to help the player understand and remember it better?

Feb. 14, 2014 10:38:40 PM

Joshua Feingold
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

If anybody wants to take a crack at incorporating a brief explanation of special actions into their rulings, now's the time. (All levels welcome!) I'm going to be wrapping this up in just a few hours.

Edited Joshua Feingold (Feb. 14, 2014 10:39:04 PM)

Feb. 15, 2014 12:19:39 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

“You know how playing a land doesn't use the stack, can't be responded to, and can only be done at certain times - on your turn, when the stack is empty and you have priority? That's what we call a Special Action, and Suspending a spell is like that. Also, you can only Suspend a spell at a time when you could normally cast that spell.”

But I wouldn't say any of that at the table; instead, I'd just go with “No, you can't do that now.” and, if I notice some confusion, I might continue with “since you can't cast it now, you can't Suspend it either; if you'd like, I can go into more detail after you finish your match.”

I do think that my approach is too short (unfriendly? cold?) for Regular REL - it's many, many years of Comp & Pro REL conditioning me to get the players back to playing ASAP. :)

d:^D

Feb. 15, 2014 12:30:59 AM

Chris Nowak
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

“Nope. You can only suspend when you could normally cast a sorcery. BTW, it's not an activated ability, it's a ‘special action’. Kinda like playing a land.”

It answers his asked question, and corrects his incorrect information, without adding more context.

Feb. 15, 2014 06:10:58 AM

Sebastian Braune
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

@Chris: You can suspend when you could cast the spell with suspend, not when you could cast a sorcery. Careful to not confuse the player with correct(?) but possibly confusing information :)

Feb. 15, 2014 06:18:42 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

Conveniently, there are no Instants with Suspend!

Feb. 15, 2014 07:26:49 AM

Chris Nowak
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

Originally posted by Sebastian Braune:

@Chris: You can suspend when you could cast the spell with suspend, not when you could cast a sorcery. Careful to not confuse the player with correct(?) but possibly confusing information :)

Doh, I actually mean to have an “it” in there so I wasn't referring to all suspend cards (but apparently I got lucky-ish). I was trying to avoid the “some cards have no mana cost so I'd never be able to cast them normally” trap.

I forgot you can Quicken or Alchemist Refuge (or similar) to be able to suspend outside the times you could normally cast a sorcery, so I was still wrong. (And factoring that in makes the “like a land” example really confusing)

So something more like:

“Nope. You can only suspend a card when you could cast a card of that type from your hand. BTW, it's not an activated ability, it's a ‘special action’, which is pretty much a thing you can do that doesn't use the stack.”

I'm still not a fan of explaining the special action. If they want to know about it, they can ask; they have the term. It seems like giving them that information can introduce lines of thinking that could either be distracting or could remind them of another interaction (potential coaching). At regular, I definitely would clear that up though.

Feb. 15, 2014 07:54:01 AM

Joshua Feingold
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor #5 - Bolt and Suspenders

All right, time to wrap things up!

This month we dealt with the question, “So, Nguni has an Ethersworn Canonist. I just cast Goblin Guide. I can still Suspend Rift Bolt this turn because it’s just an activated ability, not actually casting it, right?”

Fundamentally, there are three sub-questions we want to address:
1. Is using Suspend casting a spell?
2. Is using Suspend an activated ability?
3. If not, what the heck is it?

So, we can tackle this succinctly using an approach like:
“Actually, it's neither casting a spell nor using an activated ability. Suspending a spell is a special action, like playing a land. Special actions don't use the stack, and you can use them when you have priority plus whatever specific restrictions that action has. Suspend has the restriction that you can only do it when you could cast the spell. Since you wouldn't be allowed to cast Rift Bolt, you can't suspend it.”

This answer is short and to the point, and it covers everything the player is likely to be confused about. It creates a context for the player to understand and remember how Suspend works, hopefully preventing them from needing to ask again in the future.

There is also no danger of coaching with this answer, since you are only addressing the rules and not mentioning other lines of play. Any time you bring up a point like “but you could have suspended first, then cast the Guide” or tell them they can't take back their previous plays, you are treading into very dangerous territory. Even if the player can't use that information this turn, you have essentially advised them on a line of play that could be better later in the game or match, and that's not something we want to be doing. (Obviously, if the player asks you about the legality of a line of play they come up with themselves, it's fine to answer.)

If you would like to contribute to Personal Tutor or become a member of the PT team, drop me a line through the forum. In addition, I will be presenting a seminar on creating and presenting educational scenarios (for PT, Knowledge Pool, and other formats) at GP Richmond, so if you want to talk about an idea in person, that will be a great time to catch me!

Thanks to everyone for participating, and we'll be back next month with another scenario for all of you to turn into an educational opportunity!