This thread is for discussing the article Teaching the Layers by George FitzGerald.

Great article!

I really like this idea and I will probably institute something similar for my candidates. I really like that there is a list of starting-point cards that is more accessible to judges with small budgets.

Two notes:
1) in the last paragraph of the “Epic” section, it says that the timestamp for Rancor is when Fencer's Magemark came into play. I think it means to say the timestamp for Fencer's Magemark.

2) This is really nitpicky of me, but the global effects section of the deck is still a list of continuous effects. That may seem obvious, but it's not always obvious to a new judge candidate or even some L2 candidates. Perhaps you could call the first section the “Individual effects”.

Like I said at the beginning , this was a great read. It's full of useful stuff that people should try. I know I will be.

As an aspiring judge, I simulated the deck and found it useful, specially if you have not seen examples of several effects interacting before. In most resources covering the topic they tend to limit the depth of each exercise, to make it more approachable, but having a physical stack of effects to play with and figure out certainly helps. Also keeping the list affordable is a definite plus.

Hi!

I find this a great idea! Thanks for it!

I would like to comment on on thing in the article though:

You can use real cards or nicely printed proxies.

What do you consider a “nicely printed proxy”? Do you suggest printing pictures of real cards? Isn't this breaking the copyright?
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic%2Frules%2Fcardpolicy

Originally posted by Jess Dunks:

Two notes:
1) in the last paragraph of the “Epic” section, it says that the timestamp for Rancor is when Fencer's Magemark came into play. I think it means to say the timestamp for Fencer's Magemark.

2) This is really nitpicky of me, but the global effects section of the deck is still a list of continuous effects. That may seem obvious, but it's not always obvious to a new judge candidate or even some L2 candidates. Perhaps you could call the first section the “Individual effects”.

Like I said at the beginning , this was a great read. It's full of useful stuff that people should try. I know I will be.

1.) That is correct.

2.) It could probably be named better, but there are effects in the Continuous Effects section that can affect more than one creature. The Global Effects generally represent cards that would typically be around on the battlefield without caring about the creatures and other effects being played, while the Continuous Effects are more cards that would be cast because of the creatures, if that makes any sense.

Originally posted by David Correa:

As an aspiring judge, I simulated the deck and found it useful, specially if you have not seen examples of several effects interacting before. In most resources covering the topic they tend to limit the depth of each exercise, to make it more approachable, but having a physical stack of effects to play with and figure out certainly helps. Also keeping the list affordable is a definite plus.

The goal is to build up a judge candidate from knowing nothing. That's why we start out small with just looking at one effect at a time, then applying multiple effects to creatures, and then go nuts with a lot of stuff.

Amazing article, now I really want one deck like this, but I think I'll replace the goyf with another (much cheaper) thing. :P

Originally posted by Milan Majercik:

Hi!

I find this a great idea! Thanks for it!

I would like to comment on on thing in the article though:

You can use real cards or nicely printed proxies.

What do you consider a “nicely printed proxy”? Do you suggest printing pictures of real cards? Isn't this breaking the copyright?
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic%2Frules%2Fcardpolicy

You can (and should) use other images on those proxies. I don't think he meant to make copies of the real cards because what we really need is the text and not the images. You could even print only the text and glue it to cards, but as the visual aspect should help in the learning process, it'd be a nice idea to print proxies with images (you can find lots of them on the internet).

Originally posted by Milan Majercik:

Hi!

I find this a great idea! Thanks for it!

I would like to comment on on thing in the article though:

You can use real cards or nicely printed proxies.

What do you consider a “nicely printed proxy”? Do you suggest printing pictures of real cards? Isn't this breaking the copyright?
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic%2Frules%2Fcardpolicy

We will be editing the article shortly to address this. You are correct that even for private use, proxies and copies of cards do break copyright laws, and we certainly do not condone anyone breaking the law.

The Fencer's Magemark error has been corrected and sentence on using proxies removed.

Thanks everyone for your input. We see these comments!

Originally posted by Yklys Santos Rodrigues:

Amazing article, now I really want one deck like this, but I think I'll replace the goyf with another (much cheaper) thing. :P

Maro is a decent, cheap option that always comes to mind for me, though it creates issues with a candidate asking “How many cards are in hand?” and repeating that question after every effect is played (Hint: I would say “there will always be 5 cards in hand.”). Benalish Commander is also interesting when you have effects that change creature types. Dungrove Elder, Geist-Honored Monk, Master of Etherium, Nightmare, and Wayfaring Temple are some more recent cards that work as well. Goyf is there mostly to give us a creature with a CDA, but he's also useful because he is */*+1.

If you pick a card like Maro, or Nightmare, just pick a value for the CDA. With Goyf, I always say “There's Sorceries and Instants in the graveyard.” which also avoids the assumption/question of “The Giant Growth resolves and goes to the graveyard, so Goyf is getting an extra 1 for that.”

I love the idea, and will be building a similar pool just to practice this myself!

Using proxies for educational purposes should be okay according to the Fair Use policy.
1. It is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The cards are not available for sale as use for educational purposes (you can't buy these selected cards from WotC; and they are sold as entertainment goods, not for educational purposes)
3. Low resolution images (like you get when you magnify the cards) have been ruled to be okay in court
4. You are not endangering the market with your copies; in fact, by training a judge, you are potentially increasing the market!

Of course, if you have access to the real thing or good alternatives to the mentioned cards, go for it!


http://copyright.columbia.edu/copyright/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/

Edited Mart Leuvering (June 10, 2014 01:57:05 PM)

I have built this as well and I am using it to help out L0's and anyone else who is interested at my store.

Hopefully, it will resonate with them.

I made a small site to study using that guide: http://esteban.site44.com/decklayers/
Play x: puts a card from the ‘X’ deck into the screen and adds it's name to the affected layers
Restart: clears the screen a reshuffle the decks
Logs: hide/show the layers table
New board: clears the screen and the layers table. Used cards don't go back to the decks.

Layer information may have a few errors, I'm working in a new version, any feedback would be helpful.