Good morning!

I have a player at our local store, fun guy, but really plays slow. He plays an aggro deck in modern for example, and goes to time every round (rarely finishing a match). The way he plays is that every single play he goes over his decision point multiple times, often looking over the information on board and in hand for 30 sec to a min starting whenever their is not an “obvious” play. This is creating a situation where no one wants to play him because they know how the match is going to go to time, and possibly draw. The only time he plays a bit faster is when his opponents constantly remind him, and that makes them feel like jerks at a casual event.

He has been told many times to play faster. We have had judges watch him, and he still plays very slow. What do you suggest as a solution? I have thought about going with the “extra turns” in time we use at competitive as a possible solution. I feel that going to a multiple warnings, game loss may not be the best option here, but I want this guy to get the point.

Ideas?

I would have a conversation with this person away from the crowd. Encourage them to work on their decision making skills so that they don't “hog” all the match time to themselves. The timer is for both players to share. Some people don't need much time to work out their plays, that doesn't mean they get to use the extra time to think about his.

Nick, I have done that multiple times with this player (at least 10 - 15 times). Talking to the player about it works with most, but this guy has been doing this for over a year, and multiple discussions have not improved the situation.

Edited Amanda Swager (May 29, 2014 03:50:28 PM)

Remember, too, that you CAN give nudges and penalties at REG. Those penalties don't have to follow strictly the IPG. Try your best to get him faster, but if he doesn't want to or cannot, then eventually you have no choice but to escalate - in fairness to others.

So, look for techniques that others are about to post here. But don't be reluctant to use the hammer a bit if you exhaust other options.

-Eric
—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Rutkowski
To: eshukan@verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Super S L O W Play (Reg REL) (Regular REL)


I would have a conversation with this person away from the crowd. Encourage them to work on their decision making skills so that they don't “hog” all the match time to themselves. The timer is for both players to share. Some people don't need much time to work out their plays, that doesn't mean they get to use the extra time to think about his.

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It might seen a little “of the box” but tell him to play on mtgo. If he really plays that slow, after a while of losing every match because of the time, he will “train” himself to play faster.

I had a similar situation with a player in my LGS. It came to the point were I told them play faster or you will start receiving penalties. (I DO NOT condone threatening players for any reason. This was after about 3 months of going to time every round of every FNM.) If it continues past that you will be asked to not play. It is rare but sometimes the overall enjoyment of the community out weighs the customer service for 1 player.

I'll quote 2 relevant pieces from the JAR:

A player continuing to make the same mistake despite repeated reminders may be warned that the next occurrence will result in a Game Loss. Hopefully this final step will not be required, but knowing it is possible should get the player to correct their behavior.

General Unwanted Behaviors
 Players taking unreasonable amounts of time sideboarding or making play decisions.
…
If you have warned a player who may be upsetting others and your warning has not curbed their behaviour,
or if a player is being threatening or aggressive, these situations are Serious Problems.

The first option I feel is going to be generally agreed upon as the most educational and customer-friendly approach. Let the player know after a couple of instructions to play faster that their repeated behavior is affecting the tournament, and they will be/are being issued a Game Loss. That player will take a game loss or two, switch to playing faster than they're comfortable, and eventually settle into a good pace. Hopefully.

If they're obstinate and continue to play slowly despite repeated “nice” attempts to speed them up and show no willingness to improve, you can give them the GL hammer and let them know it's becoming a Serious Problem if they persist. Serious Problems have a well-defined outcome. The player's behavior is clearly upsetting others as you attest in your prompt, so you may have to enforce a fair tournament for everyone else at the exclusion of this player.

Obviously the caveat to Nick's solution is to talk to the TO before doing
that. But it's certainly not out of the question to start issuing game
losses for multiple violations. It's obvious education and talking to the
player have not corrected the unwanted behavior and the JAR gives us the
latitude to take that action.

Definitely what George said about talking to the TO before you proceed with a course of action.

The fact that this has been going on “over a year” is a concern that complaints from the players aren't reaching the TO, or the TO doesn't understand that this is affecting the play environment.

Definitely what George said about talking to the TO before you proceed with a course of action.

The fact that this has been going on “over a year” is a concern that complaints from the players aren't reaching the TO, or the TO doesn't understand that this is affecting the play environment.
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I'd like to point out that this is really NOT a TO issue, except inasmuch as all issue of a tourney might be considered to be within a TO's concern. But really, this is a judge issue. A player playing slowly is completely within the confines of a judge's discretion, and authority, to handle. If you feel uncomfortable handling it, then by all means involve the TO for YOUR OWN help and education in how to handle it. But if you have the ability to handle it, then do so.

I'm not suggesting that you can't get the TO involved, but I AM suggesting that if a judge is watching this happen for a year, the judge is not doing his job correctly. We are judges, and dealing with OBVIOUS slow play that is adversely affecting your tourney and moreover your community is part of our job.

Proper application of policy should solve the problem. At REG, this policy can include specific, personal treatment appropriate for the player, and this is OK to be inconsistent from one tourney to the next - that is the possible nature of REG policy.

But be sure to put the specific player's concerns in proper perspective, because there are 10, 20, or 100 other players out there who have equal claim to fun and fairness. So, be nice, be supportive of the slow player to help him understand and improve, and look for ways to educate the community about slow play so they can help themselves and help you help them.

Apply penalties if you must; be reluctant to do it, but be resolved to do it. You MUST protect other players. Wanna see the problem go away real fast after all your other efforts have failed? I bet one or two GL penalties will do wonders where a dozen weeks of warnings fail. Pull them out when you need them - they hurt briefly, but they can be used to educate, too. Be careful with them, but be purposeful with them.

-Eric

It's a TO issue when doing everything right still leaves you with a player
that is ruining the experience for all other players. As at that point
suspending the player from tournaments for some period of time is the last
option. I'd recommend really short suspensions to start, just a single
month if the player is very regular.

It could be good to step the player through a game and demonstrate how
little time to think they are allowed and some of the strategies on how to
play faster. I suspect that getting another player to help him with this is
best, as judges we aren't always the best at knowing how to play :)

Talking with the player is key. What is their perception of their own pace of play? Are they happy with it (and presumably the number of draws they are picking up)? Is it the deck they are playing?

It's a TO issue when doing everything right still leaves you with a player
that is ruining the experience for all other players. As at that point
suspending the player from tournaments for some period of time is the last
option. I'd recommend really short suspensions to start, just a single
month if the player is very regular.
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Except I would argue that “when doing everything right” is not in effect here.

-Eric

Originally posted by Riki Hayashi:

Talking with the player is key. What is their perception of their own pace of play? Are they happy with it (and presumably the number of draws they are picking up)? Is it the deck they are playing?

I would even consider finding some time before or after a tournament to play some games with him. There could be a specific part of the game that's tripping him up.

Among my own group of friends we did have one player who consistently took very long turns in the way you describe. I organised to play multiple casual games of two headed giant where I partnered with him. I was able to talk through his decision making with him and let him lead the discussion on what both of our decks would do each turn, offering suggestions and comments.

It turned out he understood the options he had each turn and saw those pretty quickly but what was holding him back was uncertanty. He was incredibly nervous that he'd missed something and so spent a lot.of time walking through ‘what ifs’. I also noticed that he was frequently assessing his plays without reference to the board state (fearing a counterspell from a tapped out opponent with no cards in hand was my favourite) and I was able to help him see this. Being able to suggest lines of play then have them supported as well as encouraging some simple board state awareness has helped him speed up considerably.

Just one other comment, payers do play at different paces and we need to remember that a more deliberate style of play is acceptable. Be careful that this player's reputation doesn't mean that ‘he’s too slow' is just a ‘fact’ with the group even if he is/has improved.