Hello everyone,

This scenario came up at a Modern event and I was wondering if anyone could provide some insight as to what fixes would be appropriate in this situation.


Aidan is playing Nero in a Competitive REL event. Aidan has a Grafdigger’s Cage in play. He plays a Snapcaster Mage during his turn, using Snapcaster Mage’s ability to target a Serum Visions in his graveyard. Nero lets the spell resolve and Aidan draws a card and uses the Scry 2 ability on Serum Visions. As Aidan is deciding how to Scry, Shane, who has been watching the match, tells the players that the move is illegal and a judge is called.

As for penalties, (I'm not sure, still learning IPG) it is GPE-GRV (warning) for Aidan for casting spell from graveyard while Cage is in play. I'm not sure what you mean by “Nero lets spell resolve” but assuming that was “OK” for question “I cast Serum”, it would be GPE-FTMGS (warning) for Nero. (or CPV, not sure). Please correct me on that part, if I get something wrong :)

As for fix, because we are still resolving Serum Vision, it's easy to back up. I would put those 2 cards from scry at top, then ask if there was any know cards from previous scry effects, and shuffle unknown part of library, then put a random card from Aidan hand at top, Serum Vision remains in graveyard, untap lands used to cast it. It still have flashback, because it was a legal target for Snapcaster trigger.

But he also drew a card with serum, i believe that Aidan should get a Game Loss.

Camilo, were there any GPEs that happened immediately before the card was drawn?

Originally posted by Camilo Fernandez:

But he also drew a card with serum, i believe that Aidan should get a Game Loss.

The first question to ask here: What infraction has Aiden committed? When and how was the initial error committed?

In this case, the error was Aiden casting Serum Visions from his graveyard. Illegally casting the spell is a Game Play Error–Game Rule Violation. Drawing the card is a red herring, as Aiden was properly resolving the spell. Which leads to the definition of Game Play Error–Drawing Extra Cards from the MIPG…

A player illegally puts one or more cards into his or her hand and, at the moment before he or she began the instruction or action that put a card into his or her hand, no other Game Play Error or Communication Policy Violation had been committed, and the error was not the result of resolving objects on the stack in an incorrect order.

…and since a GPE-GRV was committed by Aiden, that applies here. GPE-DEC should not apply to this situation.

Camilo, from the IPG:

2.3 Drawing Extra Cards
A player illegally puts one or more cards into his or her hand and, at the moment before he or she began the instruction or action that put a card into his or her hand, no other Game Play Error or Communication Policy Violation had been committed

Drawing the card came as s direct result of commiting a GRV (casting the spell with the Cage in play). This means it will not be DEC, and will not carry a game loss.

From the Annotated IPG:

An easy way to remember the correct infraction is: if the first opportunity an opponent had to possibly notice a problem was when the card hit the hand, it is DEC

In this case, the opponent could have (should have?) noticed the error when the spell was cast.

So from reading the situation, I would say that a GPE-GRV for Aidan and GPE-FtMGS for Nero since he let the spell resolve even though it was an illegal action. After reading the comments, it seems like most people agree with this.

The rewind fix that Bartlomiej proposed seems appropriate for this situation, as only the Serum Visions has been cast. Putting the scry cards back on top and taking one card at random out of his hand isn't too disruptive, and we will back up to the point where Snapcaster Mage's trigger resolves, still targeting Serum Visions as it is a legal target.

Good question proposed here. :)

Originally posted by Sam:

In this case, the opponent could have (should have?) noticed the error when the spell was cast.

Yep, and that's why we'll give Nero a Failure to Maintain Game State, along with Aidan's Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation (for casting a spell from the graveyard when the Cage prevents that).

As others have said, no Drawing Extra Cards here, for the reasons stated.

We will put back the two cards being Scry'd, and shuffle them into the random portion of the library (Looking At Extra Cards has also occurred, along with the GRV, so we apply that remedy here, too). Then, *after* the shuffle, we'll undo the card draw by putting a random card from Aidan's hand on top of his library. We'll put the Serum Visions back in the graveyard, and untap any lands tapped to play it.

And yes, we stop rewinding at the point where the (first) error occurred. (Note also that we don't always rewind, and the more that's happened, the less likely we should - but that's another topic, for another day.)

d:^D

A lot of judges (myself included) don't realise that the correct fix for GRVs where cards have been accidentally seen is to shuffle as per the Looking at Extra Cards fix. I believe it's because, when the GRV fix describes the way to back up, it says “each action taken is undone”. That says to literally go backwards as if playing a video in reverse. From this scenario (and the recent Gold Knowledge Pool) it's clear that actually you sometimes need to shuffle too - an additional action not part of the literal reverse each action taken.

In a future IPG update might we consider adding a single line to make it clear that the L@EC shuffle is occasionally needed as part of the GRV fix? Something like "if the error caused a player to look at a card they otherwise would not have seen, then "

In the meantime I'll be sure to spread the word locally :)