Hey!

So at my local FNM this week, a very interesting thing occurred, which we tried to solve to the best of our ability, but both me and the TO weren't really sure on what the best method would be.

Basically, a player had registered for the event (starting at 6:30) and was placed into one of the two 9 people draft pods (we had 18 people).
When we started the seating, everyone sat down, and I guess this particular player was out grabbing food, for a smoke, whatever.. The pods filled, and I guess the pod he was SUPPOSED to be in (now an 8 person pod) kind of just filled in the missing gap, so it wasn't immediately obvious that there was an 8 person pod, where it should've been 9.

Anyway, the draft began, and about 7 picks into the booster, this player returned, and obviously we had a situation, considering he was a paying customer, it's not as if he was late to the draft.

What we ended up doing, was giving him a booster for his draft deck and then he joined in for the second pack. Naturally, because his deck was obviously slightly gimped due to the lack of drafting a first booster, we also refunded him 5 dollars.

Does anyone have a better way of dealing with this? (other than the obvious, which is triple check the numbers of the pods before beginning!)

Edited Mark Brown (Nov. 13, 2012 07:54:55 AM)

I suppose you have a few options you could consider.

You could either of these:

1) Explain to the player that it is their responsibility to ensure that they're in the venue at the start of the tournament, tell them that they've missed this draft and to come back next week. Refunding them their entry fee seems appropriate too. Preregistering for a tournament doesn't mean the TO has to wait for me to start the event, it still needs to start on time.

2) Let the players at his table finish with the first pack. After they're done that pack, but before they've opened the second one tell them to put away all of the cards they've just drafted, they they get to keep those cards but they're no longer part of the draft. Give them each another booster and start the draft again.

Edited Michael White (Oct. 29, 2012 02:41:25 AM)

This is a grey area between judge and TO responsibility. I don't think
you did anything wrong and this seemed like a quite workable solution.
Some things to think about:
1. As Mike mentioned - unless you started the draft before a stated
start time, then that player was late - simple as that. Will I
typically check for smokers at my tournament? Yes. Is it their
responsibility to be on time? Definitely yes.
2. I would not recommend the solution Mike mentioned in #2, just
because its going to irk players “I drafted this bomb!”, “If I had
known, I would've just rare drafted”, etc.
3. A good way to avoid missing a missing player, is to count out the
product and put it on the table. It should be quickly apparent that
someone's missing.
4. The $5 dollar rebate is very much a TO issue - customer service,
etc. (at least this doesn't impact anyone else in the tournament).
5. BTW - wouldn't running 3 pods of 6 be better?

Adam Cetnerowski

Pet peeve: Please use meaningful topics. It makes searching the forums
so much easier. Something like “FNM: Player tardy to draft” has a ton
more information scent.

One way of avoiding this kind of thing that my local store uses is assigned seating and counted-out product, so that when a player is missing there's an obviously empty chair where they should be sitting and extra packs left over.

As for dealing with it after the fact, your own solution seems quite serviceable for FNM, and Michael's first solution is also fine; it is the player's responsibility to be where they're supposed to be, so if they're not in the building when the draft starts, it's their own fault. The TO only bears responsibility if the player was told a specific start time and the draft started earlier than that time.

Yeah, for sure as far as avoiding it happening again, certainly taking those measures. Normally I always count, and I thought I did this week, I guess I miscounted or something.
We do use assigned seating, but the tables are optimal for 8 players, so when I called their names, I guess they just assumed the missing player was beside them and were none the wiser..

As far as saying “Too bad you're late”, which while true and probably the most logical thing to do, customer service wise, our store would rather keep it more friendly then that and if at ALL possible, find a way to accommodate him.

Thanks for all the answers, good discussion.

@Adam: Next time I will make a more meaningful title, my bad!
And as far as doing 3 pods of 6 goes, we usually ask the players, and see what they would prefer. We give out product based on pod standing, which obviously works beautifully when you have N pods of 8 (we do 7-5-3-1), but if we were to do 3 pods of 6, the prize breakdown would likely be 6-4-2, so we really leave it to what people like :)

I think there is a slightly better solution.

Stop the players where they are, and have them put the pack they are currently on down. Seat the missing player and have them open their booster and choose a card. Pass that booster and have each player take a card until it's in the correct spot. Then have all players pick up the booster they were on and continue the draft as normal. The missing player has missed several picks in pack 1, but the error, and responsibility is on them.

While there is no perfect solution, this one gets the draft as close to it's natural normal state.

I've edited the title to make it more obvious for future searching etc.

Originally posted by Gregory Schwartz:

I think there is a slightly better solution.

Stop the players where they are, and have them put the pack they are currently on down. Seat the missing player and have them open their booster and choose a card. Pass that booster and have each player take a card until it's in the correct spot. Then have all players pick up the booster they were on and continue the draft as normal. The missing player has missed several picks in pack 1, but the error, and responsibility is on them.

While there is no perfect solution, this one gets the draft as close to it's natural normal state.

There are other ramifications to this solution.

- Certain players will receive 15 picks in their first pack of drafting. Unless the inserted player is put in on the 8th pick for a 9 person pod, this means that for the original players, some will have 15 cards, and some will have 14.
- Players immediately to the left of the inserted <Player 9> will receive a disproportionate benefit of having multiple 2nd (3rd, 4th…) pick cards.

Edited Erik Halverson (Dec. 10, 2012 11:12:17 PM)

I usually make sure to have the exact number of boosters ready. So if there is anything wrong, it gets noticed because there are either spare boosters or too few of them.

Also, I would very much suggest to kindly explain to the player he is too late. All options short of restarting the draft are going to compromise the integrity of the draft. Even though it is regular, that matters because you might botch the draft for eight other customers in order to satisfy the needs of one customer. In my experience most people will understand that there is no easy way out. You might offer him a free draft the next time in order make sure he comes back. (And to keep the TO happy.) However, be sure to stress it's the player's responsibility to be on time first and foremost.

@ Adam: I think I would prefer 9 over 6. 6 is 2 away from the ideal number, whereas 9 is just 1 away from the ideal number. Why do you prefer tables with 6?

Because two tables of 9 result in two pods with a bye each round and 6 is
an alright draft. Basically, you have the choice of 10+8 or 3*6.


2012/12/11 Wim Schepel <forum-1709@apps.magicjudges.org>

Another mark against larger pods is at the end of 3 rounds you can have 2
players with 3-0 records and if you payout on standing not points someone
is unhappy they are second although they never lost a round.


On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Dominik Chlobowski <
forum-1709@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> Because two tables of 9 result in two pods with a bye each round and 6 is
> an alright draft. Basically, you have the choice of 10+8 or 3*6.
>
>
> 2012/12/11 Wim Schepel <forum-1709@apps.magicjudges.org>
>
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–
Gareth Pye
Level 2 Judge, Melbourne, Australia
Australian MTG Forum: mtgau.com
gareth@cerberos.id.au - www.rockpaperdynamite.wordpress.com
“Dear God, I would like to file a bug report”

Originally posted by Adam Cetnerowski:

5. BTW - wouldn't running 3 pods of 6 be better?

I agree, but WER doesn't. My first preferred way of doing an 18-person draft is three six-pods, followed by two nine-pods, followed by ten and eight. WER will AFAIK do ten and eight to avoid byes.

Having 1/3rd of your event receive bye's is bad times. I'm happy to
debate the relative merits of 6-6-6 and 10-8*, but 9-9 is clearly a
bad experience for the players.



*And so will many of your players, neither is going to please everyone.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Thomas Ralph
<forum-1709@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
> Adam Cetnerowski
> 5. BTW - wouldn't running 3 pods of 6 be better?
>
>
> I agree, but WER doesn't. My first preferred way of doing an 18-person draft
> is three six-pods, followed by two nine-pods, followed by ten and eight. WER
> will AFAIK do ten and eight to avoid byes.
>
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–
Gareth Pye
Level 2 Judge, Melbourne, Australia
Australian MTG Forum: mtgau.com
gareth@cerberos.id.au - www.rockpaperdynamite.wordpress.com
“Dear God, I would like to file a bug report”

This kind of thing is not uncommon. Unfortunately, since it's the player's responsibility to be on time and any solution creates an unbalanced draft for the rest of the players in the event, I would not allow this player to draft. I would definitely refund his entry fee or give him the three packs, whichever he prefers. I know this is tougher for stores that don't draft everyday, since he's probably been waiting a week to draft, but any other solution in the name of customer service either does a disservice to the other players in the event or costs the store money.

For those of you who don't know, you can modify the pods after WER makes them if your players prefer three 6 man pods.

–
Jess Dunks
Level 2 Magic Judge
General Manager, Channel Fireball Game Center
Jessdunks@channelfireball.com

Staggered starts is also a good answer.

Kick off the first pod (and, really, with 18 people signed up, kick it off as a 10-man). If someone is missing, randomly select someone else from the second pod to take their place.

A few minutes later, kick off the second pod. That way you can accommodate late prereg players as well as ones who show up late.