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Rules Q&A » Post: Ashcloud Phoenix dies as morph not returning explanation.

Ashcloud Phoenix dies as morph not returning explanation.

Sept. 30, 2014 02:29:35 PM

walker robinson
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Ashcloud Phoenix dies as morph not returning explanation.

I have been asked this question a lot recently. What are the actual comp rules that support the http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2014/09/ashcloud-phoenix-wont-come-back-if-its-face-down-when-it-dies/
statements. “Is this not the same state based effect that flips the morph card while also checking to see if it died when being placed in the graveyard?”
I have also been asked because of this statement wouldn't that then allow die triggers to go on the stack even if the graveyard no longer exists or if an effect just prevents creatures from entering the graveyard.

Sept. 30, 2014 02:45:07 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Ashcloud Phoenix dies as morph not returning explanation.

Moved to Rules Q&A, closed awaiting ‘O’fficial reply.

Oct. 1, 2014 03:59:32 AM

Callum Milne
Forum Moderator
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Western Provinces

Ashcloud Phoenix dies as morph not returning explanation.

I'm having difficulty understanding your question, but I'll walk through the rules behind the Ashcloud Phoenix scenario for you. If that doesn't answer your question, feel free to send me a message privately and I can try to better clarify things.

A face-down Ashcloud Phoenix is Shocked. Shock resolves and deals 2 damage to the creature. Immediately afterwards the game checks for applicable state-based actions and sees that there is a 2/2 creature with 2 damage marked on it, so it destroys that creature and puts it into the graveyard. As it goes to the graveyard its owner reveals it to his opponent to prove that it's a morph creature, as per rule 707.9.

Let's check if there are any leaves-the-battlefield triggers that want to trigger off of the destruction of the morph creature. Per rule 603.6d, we need to look at the game state before the event to determine if there are any leaves-the-battlefield abilities to trigger. So we look at the game state immediately before the destruction, and we see the nameless 2/2 creature on the battlefield. But that creature has no abilities to trigger. So there are no leaves-the-battlefield abilities to trigger off of the destruction of the morph creature. Nothing triggers.

Hopefully that was helpful.
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