Angel of Serenity
Hi guys, I'm kind of stuck between two camps of understanding here.
My understanding of its ETB trigger would be:
1. Choose number of targets
2. Declare targets
3. Resolve ETB trigger, choosing to exile all targeted or nothing

Reasoning behind this understanding would be that it's a single trigger to be put on the stack, therefore “may exile” applies as a blanket choice.

However, there are also interpretations of its ETB trigger to be:
1. Choose number of targets
2. Declare targets
3. Resolve ETB trigger, choosing to exile targets on an individual basis

The reasoning for such would be that they are treating a single trigger as three instances of Fiend Hunter's ETB trigger in one trigger.

Would be good to have a clearer view on this, thanks :)

The first interpretation is correct.

During the abilities resolution, you decide to either use the effect, or decline to use it, ie. either you exile all targets or none.

You sort of alluded to the reasoning yourself, it is a SINGLE trigger being put on the stack, not three separate triggers.

Thanks for the confirmation, just wanted to be clear that my understanding of it was correct. :)

One player asked me why you can choose to exile or not on resolution, because on the gatherer says:

If Angel of Serenity leaves the battlefield before its enters-the-battlefield ability has resolved, its leaves-the-battlefield ability will trigger and do nothing. Then the enters-the-battlefield ability will resolve and exile the targeted creatures and/or creature cards indefinitely.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=253627

And also he stated that on mtgo that doesn't work that way.

How can i elaborate with that?

That is certainly interesting…
As far as I understand it, that ruling (on Gatherer) seems to be somewhat misleading, as you should be able to choose on resolution whether you exile the creatures or not.

Edit: Yes, that gathering ruling is incredibly misleading, seems to be a copy paste from Oblivion Ring to be honest..
For reference, and the best way to explain it to another player:
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/11/angel-of-serenity-may-exile-the-targets-if-its-killed-before-the-trigger-resolves/

Could we get someone to change that??? (While the creatures WILL be exiled indefinitely if the owner chooses that option, it is not a necessity, as the ruling somewhat states)

Edited Andre Diamant (Nov. 23, 2012 03:32:08 AM)

Yes, Gatherer is misleading for this case because it's there to explain how you can do the permanent-exile trick, same as Fiend Hunter or Oblivion Ring.

When Angel of Serenity's ETB triggered ability resolves, you make the choice then of whether to exile all the targets, or exile none of them, just as the rules tips blog says. See rule 603.5 and 608.2b for the fact that this choice is made on resolution rather than when the ability is put on the stack.

For whether you can do each individually, just interpret according to normal rules of English; if it were a choice per target, it could easily be worded that way, but it isn't.

Edited James Bennett (Nov. 23, 2012 03:52:22 AM)

Rulings in Gatherer are not always meant for the most general case. The given ruling assumes that the controller wants the targets to be exiled. It might be better if that were spelled out more explicitly, but the ruling is not technically incorrect; it's just misleading.

Anyway, rulings are trumped by rules, and here's the rule we need for this situation:

603.5. Some triggered abilities' effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability's option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. Likewise, triggered abilities that have an effect “unless” something is true or a player chooses to do something will go on the stack normally; the “unless” part of the ability is dealt with when the ability resolves.

Originally posted by José Moreira:

One player asked me why you can choose to exile or not on resolution, because on the gatherer says:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=253627

And also he stated that on mtgo that doesn't work that way.

How can i elaborate with that?

It doesn't work that way on MTG:O? That's interesting because a player actually informed me of this happening on MTG:O (the choice to exile on ability resolution, “Do you wish to exile? Y/N” or something like that was prompted to him), and wanted to clarify with me whether it's supposed to be correct.

I do believe the rule to refer to is 603.5, as quoted by Carsten, and not 608.2b :)

Just to be 100% sure I understand this correctly I want to try an example:

A: Resolves Angel of Serenity. Trigger goes on the stack targeting A's Angel of Serenity, Thragtusk, Thragtusk in graveyard.

N: In response to trigger casts Ultimate Price on Angel of Serenity.

Ultimate Price resolves. Angel dies triggering return to hand effect.

Return trigger resolves. No effect.

ETB trigger goes to resolve. A sees he's about to exile 3 of his own cards permanently. Chooses not to use the ability. Targets remain in graveyard.

Originally posted by Adam Zakreski:

Just to be 100% sure I understand this correctly I want to try an example:

A: Resolves Angel of Serenity. Trigger goes on the stack targeting A's Angel of Serenity, Thragtusk, Thragtusk in graveyard.

N: In response to trigger casts Ultimate Price on Angel of Serenity.

Ultimate Price resolves. Angel dies triggering return to hand effect.

Return trigger resolves. No effect.

ETB trigger goes to resolve. A sees he's about to exile 3 of his own cards permanently. Chooses not to use the ability. Targets remain in graveyard.

Yes, that sequence is legal.