2.4. Game Play Error — Improper Drawing at Start of Game
Examples
C. A player, going first, does not skip her first draw step.

This used to be: “Thanks for noticing on time. Now you won't receive a game loss”. But now with the remedy for drawing extra cards things get weird. For example, a player mulligans from 7 to 6 cards and doesn't skip his first draw step. If the error is noticed before a game action is taken, 2 cards are taken at random from his hand and shuffled in his library. He ends up with 5 cards and a warning.
If he took a game action before the error is noticed, he has to reveal his hand and the opponent chooses 1 card to be shuffled in the library. He ends up with 6 cards and a warning.

It feels more consistent to always rule this as DEC, game action taken or not. It also removes the possibility for players to strategically making a game action or not.

Mark,

I think you raise a good point.
Still, I can see a lot of scenarios where “5 cards and a warning” is a lot better than “6 cards and a warning … after my opponent applied a free Thoughtseize”.

Edited Francesco Scialpi (Oct. 14, 2015 07:50:20 AM)

Francesco; why would it be 6 instead of 5 cards?

Imagine I draw 7 at start of game and then proceed to draw for my turn
while I shouldn't.
I now have 8 cards in hand, because I drew 1 extra.
If we use the DEC fix, we remove the 1 extra card (back down to 7) by
revealing your hand and letting your opponent chose a card to shuffle into
the library.

The only way this gets REALLY awkward is when your opponent chooses the
only land you have to be shuffled away.
However, that's also a risk when we force you to shuffle away an extra card.

I think this might be an option worth considering.

-R.



2015-10-14 14:50 GMT+02:00 Francesco Scialpi <

Would he still have an option to mulligan after we apply DEC fix since the current improper draw fix allows him to?



Sashi C Loco (Emcee/Host/BroadcastDJ/HipHopArtiste)

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:55 PM, Richard Drijvers
<forum-21991-4fa3@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

I would think not. It's either drawing extra cards, or ID@SoG, mixing the
fixes seems like a really bad choice.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:20 AM Sashi Kumar Balakrishnan <

Originally posted by Richard Drijvers:

Francesco; why would it be 6 instead of 5 cards?

The proposed scenario is the player mulliganed to six.

I had multiple players complain about the fact that improper drawing seemed to be treated harsher than DEC at my most recent event. I applied the fix (2 random cards removed from hand) twice, and twice I had the players complain that it seemed so much harsher than the DEC fix.

Originally posted by Thomas Wood:

I had multiple players complain about the fact that improper drawing seemed to be treated harsher than DEC at my most recent event. I applied the fix (2 random cards removed from hand) twice, and twice I had the players complain that it seemed so much harsher than the DEC fix.

Which format? Constructed or Limited?
Being the offending player, I would (more or less) prefer getting DEC fix in Limited and IDaSOG fix in Constructed.

Format was Sealed BFZ. Both times players had accidentally drawn while they were on the play, and had 8 cards in hand. They ended up with 6 cards on the play, which was a pretty unsatisfactory situation in a limited event.

Originally posted by Francesco Scialpi:

Still, I can see a lot of scenarios where “5 cards and a warning” is a lot better than “6 cards and a warning … after my opponent applied a free Thoughtseize”.

I think the more scenarios there are, the more need there is for consistency to prevent players tailoring the remedy.

Thomas Wood
Format was Sealed BFZ. Both times players had accidentally drawn while they were on the play, and had 8 cards in hand. They ended up with 6 cards on the play, which was a pretty unsatisfactory situation in a limited event.

This will happen more frequently these days because of the new mulligan rule with scry. I hope players will get accustomed to it, but a changed IPG in the meantime would be nice.

In a modern Comp REL event today I had the first player cast Thoughtseize turn 1 and see opponent's hand of 8 cards. Applied DEC then thoughtseize because opponent took a game action by revealing their hand. Had they counted it first, it would have been IDaSOG.

The current policy certainly seems to incentivise taking any game action first.