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Competitive REL » Post: Did I play a land? Communication type

Did I play a land? Communication type

Dec. 19, 2015 01:57:17 PM

Dominick Riesland
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Did I play a land? Communication type

While I am not denying that the bulleted points fall into their stated
categories, can we be sure they are exhaustive? Given the nature of the
game, I would hate to see a failure of imagination lead to a bad ruling.
For example, the bulleted point about status fails to mention the status of
transformed; does that mean that one must derive the status based on being
told a permanent's name is “Jace, Vryn's Prodigy” vs. “Jace, Telepath
Unbound”? Is asking about transformed status an invitation for the opponent
to not answer because it is not on the list of free information, or is the
declaration that a card's status is free information enough to require an
honest answer about whether or not it has transformed?

Dec. 20, 2015 08:20:51 PM

Markus Bauer
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Did I play a land? Communication type

Originally posted by Dominick Riesland:

does that mean that one must derive the status based on being
told a permanent's name is “Jace, Vryn's Prodigy” vs. “Jace, Telepath
Unbound”??

Details of current game actions and past game actions that still affect the game state. I think transforming something is a game action that affects the game long after it happened.

How else would you clearly define free information if not through a list of inclusive points? I personally can't think of a better way.

Dec. 21, 2015 11:31:36 AM

Lyle Waldman
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Did I play a land? Communication type

Originally posted by Dominick Riesland:

While I am not denying that the bulleted points fall into their stated
categories, can we be sure they are exhaustive? Given the nature of the
game, I would hate to see a failure of imagination lead to a bad ruling.
For example, the bulleted point about status fails to mention the status of
transformed; does that mean that one must derive the status based on being
told a permanent's name is “Jace, Vryn's Prodigy” vs. “Jace, Telepath
Unbound”? Is asking about transformed status an invitation for the opponent
to not answer because it is not on the list of free information, or is the
declaration that a card's status is free information enough to require an
honest answer about whether or not it has transformed?

Interesting note: MTR 4.1 hasn't been updated to include “transformed” in the list of physical states of a card. I presume that was an oversight, and perhaps now that it has been mentioned someone will fix it in the next update. I'm pretty sure that “transformed” is intended to be listed in the 4th bullet point of free information, amongst “tapped”, “flipped”, etc. and hence the question is moot.

As for your previous post, I agree that the wording could be made more clear. However I believe that the lists there are intended to be exhaustive.

Dec. 21, 2015 12:54:44 PM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

Did I play a land? Communication type

I'm reasonably certain that a player asking whether their opponent's card
is a Vryn's Prodigy or a Telepath Unbound isn't a corner case that keeps
Toby up at night. In the one call you will have in your judging career
where a player doesn't know whether their opponent's card is face up or
face down, I'm confident you'll be able to arrive at a reasonable ruling
without resorting to the intricacies of the communication policy.

Dec. 21, 2015 11:26:03 PM

Joaquín Pérez
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Tournament Organizer

Iberia

Did I play a land? Communication type

Well, in case of Jace, is really easy, since its name is free information and it's not the same.

Any player must answer “completely and honestly” about what the name of that wonderful 1U mythic of Origins is. “Jace” doesn't qualify as a complete answer.

Dec. 21, 2015 11:48:53 PM

Gareth Tanner
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Did I play a land? Communication type

I don't think having a different name is why transform isn't listed, otherwise the same would be true for flipped. How the 4 listed are different to transform is that they can be not obvious at times, if a player doesn't tap to 90 degrees; a tapped flipped card that sort of thing. Transform cards don't have these problems, if the day is showing it hasn't transformed, if the night side is then it has.