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Competitive REL » Post: Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

Jan. 18, 2016 05:26:53 PM

Russell Jones
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

Now that the broad HCE rules are being added to the IPG, they seem to apply clearly in this case. The fix, though, could be clearer about the interpretation.

1) N looks at A's hand, chooses any two cards, and puts them back on A's library directly
2) N looks at A's hand, chooses any three cards, and these are deemed to be the “cards drawn this turn”, then A chooses two of those cards and puts them back

In this case, the end result isn't likely to matter, but is there supposed to be any guidance toward case 1 or case 2?

Jan. 18, 2016 06:12:30 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

So, yes, Hidden Card Error finally slays the Sylvan Library dragon!

The question is, how do we apply the remedy - it's not blatantly obvious if we want the opponent to choose two excess cards, or three unverified cards. However, doing the former seems intuitive enough, and the latter would also cost the player their draw for the turn, which doesn't seem to fit the philosophy.

Yes, it's true that some “harshness” exists in this remedy. Consider the Domri Rade example Toby mentions, in his blog; you forget to reveal, but have only creatures in hand - your opponent gets to take away one of them, even though you could, legally, have them all. Or you just picked up a random dude, it's the only creature in your hand, but you've also got a Planeswalker that your opponent can't deal with - well, now they can.

Seems harsh? Well, (a) not as harsh as a Game Loss, and (b) “Stop Making Mistakes!” is a fine answer. (Just don't be as snarky saying it, as it felt when I typed that… heh!)

d:^D

Edited Scott Marshall (Jan. 18, 2016 06:13:15 PM)

Jan. 19, 2016 12:23:19 PM

Frank Rodriguez
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

With the new update to the IPG, don't we just apply the “Thoughtsieze” fix for 2 cards, give Anafenza a Warning for Hidden Card Error(IPG 2.3)

Jan. 19, 2016 12:53:47 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

Originally posted by Frank Rodriguez:

don't we just
Sorry, I thought that was fairly clear in my post - but I know what I was thinking as I wrote it, y'all didn't, and now I see that I wasn't all that clear.

The opponent gets to pick two cards from your hand, to be returned to the top of the library. Or, you can pay 8 life, and then there's no infraction.

What's new & different? We no longer have to stress about being at less than 8 life, and thus losing the game; that rather unpleasant outcome just goes away, now.

d:^D

Jan. 19, 2016 01:03:12 PM

Nathaniel Bass
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - South Central

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

The opponent gets to pick two cards from your hand, to be returned to the top of the library.
IPG
If that zone is the library, they should be shuffled into the random portion.
If we have established this is GPE-HCE, shouldn't these cards be shuffled in, rather than placed back on top?

Jan. 19, 2016 01:05:16 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Yet another Sylvan Library disaster

nit successfully picked, Nathaniel.