Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

I want to point out that it doesn't matter if a trigger was forgotten, only if it is Missed as per the definition in the IPG.

But it *does* matter if the trigger was “forgotten” for purposes of OoOS, correct?

Originally posted by Eli Meyer:

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

I want to point out that it doesn't matter if a trigger was forgotten, only if it is Missed as per the definition in the IPG.

But it *does* matter if the trigger was “forgotten” for purposes of OoOS, correct?

I believe one of the reason we talk about missed and not forgotten is that there is actually no reliable fact to assess taht a thing has been forgotten, whereas you have a definition of what is missed. So I dot not see how you can sort that out unless the player says “I had forgotten”

This was the part of OoOS that would make me call this a Missed Trigger:

Originally posted by MTR:

In general, any substantial pause at the end of a completed batch is an indication that all actions have been taken, the sequence is complete and the game has moved to the appropriate point at the end of the sequence.

If the situation is as reported in the OP then this can't be OoOS because of the pause at the end of the batch.

Edited Marc Shotter (March 1, 2016 07:01:28 AM)

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

I want to point out that it doesn't matter if a trigger was forgotten, only if it is Missed as per the definition in the IPG.

There is no doubt that the trigger has been missed, in the sense of Missed Triggers. Abbot cannot resolve before the point where Chandra should have untapped.

However, I don't think that this is the same “missed” than in the sentence “Nor may players use OoOS to try to retroactively take an action that they missed at the appropriate time”.

Missed Trigger tells us whether a sequence is correct. OoOS exists specifically to cover technically incorrect sequences.

I don't think that it can be argued that the extra information from the Abbot's ability “reasonably affects” the decision to untap Chandra.

For me, the crucial sentence is “In general, any substantial pause at the end of a completed batch is an indication that all actions have been taken”. If you think that the pause was substantial, do not allow Chandra to untap. if you think it wasn't, allow it.

Why does the amount of time passed matter? The last part of the batch that Annie would resolve is a trigger and, as Scott pointed out, forgetting a trigger and missing a trigger are not the same thing. Should we not treat this the same as a trigger?

Originally posted by Mike Combs:

Why does the amount of time passed matter? The last part of the batch that Annie would resolve is a trigger and, as Scott pointed out, forgetting a trigger and missing a trigger are not the same thing.

Emphasis added–we're focusing on the pause because whether we're debating whether the actions Annie resolved actually constitute a “batch”! If they did, then that batch is OOoS–a bunch of actions happening in an imprecise order leading to a legal ending game state. However, if it was not a single batch of actions, then the line Florian quoted (“Nor may players use OoOS to try to retroactively take an action that they missed at the appropriate time”) probably applies. In the case of a noticeable pause between the rest of the actions and the untap, I would rule that Annie cannot append untapping onto the end of an otherwise complete batch of actions to ‘un-miss’ her trigger.