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Competitive REL » Post: Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

May 12, 2016 10:15:08 AM

John Brian McCarthy
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

Welcome back to Personal Tutor, where we learn how to maximize our opportunities for player education. Our mission is to transcend the basic answer to create an informative response that the players will really remember and teach them something about the rules, rather than just resolving this ruling. You may even find this process helps you come to a better understanding of rules and policy yourself.

Here's this month's scenario:

At a Sealed PPTQ, Aalto casts Open the Armory, finds a card in his library, and puts it in his hand. When Namboothiri calls you over, you look at Aalto's hand, and see Plains, Neglected Heirloom, Bound by Moonsilver, and Militant Inquisitor. You determine that a Hidden Card Error has been committed, so Aalto will need to reveal his hand, and Namboothiri will decide which card wasn't revealed. How do you explain the infraction, penalty and remedy to the players?

You can assume that both players agree on what has happened, that you've already ruled out cheating, and that you don't need to confirm any more details - you just need to explain to the players what comes next, in a way that they both understand their options. As usual, we're going to ask you to provide an actual quote from yourself in this situation, rather than a general description.

L1s and Judge Candidates, feel free to give your answers immediately. L2s, please wait a day to add your input. L3, please wait two days. We'll be back with our answer in a couple weeks.

Edited John Brian McCarthy (May 12, 2016 11:08:31 AM)

May 12, 2016 11:18:44 AM

Marc Shotter
Judge (Uncertified)

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

“Aalto because you didn’t reveal the card from ‘Open the Armory’, you’ve committed a Hidden Card Error. As it’s possible for players to use this kind of situation to select any card rather than the type they should have been able to, the IPG seeks to ensure it can’t result in an unfair advantage and so we have a standard remedy. You will need to reveal your hand to Namboothiri who will select a card as the card that should have been revealed.

Namboothiri you will need to select a card from Aalto’s hand that and we will treat it as the card added by ‘Open the Armory’. If this card could not have been legally added with the Open we will have an excess card in Aalto’s hand and that will be shuffled back into his library. If the card could have been added with Open no excess cards exist and Aalto’s hand will not change.

Aalto, HCE comes with a Warning, a penalty which is tracked so we can ensure errors are not persistently repeated. If you collect a third of these warnings during the tournament it will be upgraded to a Game Loss.”

Based on the OP I’ve assumed no prior HCE’s and no part of the hand was already known.

Edited Marc Shotter (May 12, 2016 11:34:59 AM)

May 12, 2016 12:24:03 PM

Iván R. Molia
Judge (Level 1 (International Judge Program))

Iberia

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

As all agree with whats happens i tell:
“Aalto commits a Game Rule Violation - Hidden Card Error, sanctioned with a Warning. To fix this, Namboothiri will see the cards on Aalto's hand and choose one ”as the found card“ by Aalto and procced according the legality of the choosen card. If Aalto want avoid show his hand, as allways, He can concede the current game and start the next game if the score allow it ^_^; Take more carefull and play focused, and thx for the call… I will give you two X mins extra time; good luck both.”

Because is really high the chance of a question about “how to procced according the legality of the choosen card” and what implications of the choosen can be… but i want avoid tacticals hints… i will wait a bit for the question like “What happens if i choose a non-aura non-equip card?” to tell that “this make the choose an ilegal action, so the card is shuffle into the bibliary”

I will wait near the table until they finish the decisions are taken to check all are done correctly.

May 18, 2016 06:20:51 AM

Marit Norderhaug Getz
Judge (Uncertified)

Europe - North

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

“Since you didn't reveal a card for Open the Armory, you have committed a Hidden Card Error, which we have to fix. We believe that it was an honest mistake, but we don't want any incentives to cheat in situations like this by taking an illegal card. So when I'm finished explaining, you will have to reveal your hand to Namboothiri, she then chooses the card you're supposed to reveal.

As she didn't have any way to verify which card it really was, she can choose any card in your hand, exept for cards she knew was there before the error. We then check if the chosen card was legal to find by Open the Armory. If it was, it will stay in your hand, if not, it will be shuffled back into the library.

OK, if everything is clear, you can reveal your hand now. *wait to ensure correct fix* You will also get a warning for this, just to ensure that similar mistakes aren't made repeatedly, a third hidden card error warning would mean a game loss, so take care :)”


Assuming the library and hand is verified to be unknown (but i like to mention the thing about known cards for consistency). If I were a FJ, I would also mention the right to appeal before the “OK”, unless Aalto seemed fine with it. I wouldn't mention anything about the right to concede though, as the fact that you're always allowed to concede is a separate rule, and not part of the HCE fix. But by asking if everything is clear, the player have a chance to ask about it.

Originally posted by Iván R. Molia:

To fix this, Namboothiri will see the cards on Aalto's hand and choose one ”as the found card“ by Aalto and procced according the legality of the choosen card
Originally posted by Iván R. Molia:

but i want avoid tacticals hints

It feels strange to omit part of the fix in our explanation to avoid strategical advice. The IPG tells us to explain the infraction to the players, including the procedure to fix the situation, and the fix specifically includes what to do if the card could legally be or not be in the set of unrevealed cards.

May 18, 2016 12:16:50 PM

Sal Cortez
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific West

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

“Alrighty guys, since a card that should have been revealed but wasn't went to a hidden zone, in this case Aalto's hand, this is a Hidden Card Error. We fix this by having the opponent, that's you Namboothiri, pick a card from his hand to be revealed. If the chosen card is still a legal choice, in this case, either an equipment or aura card, then it will stay in his hand. If not, then it will be returned to the library which will then be shuffled.

All set? Good! Now the Hidden Card Error comes with a Warning Aalto, please be more careful next time c: I'll give you guys, oh, about 3 minutes extension go ahead and continue playing.”

May 18, 2016 12:55:18 PM

Riki Hayashi
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

USA - Midatlantic

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

Originally posted by Marit Norderhaug Getz:

“Since you didn't reveal a card for Open the Armory, you have committed a Hidden Card Error, which we have to fix. We believe that it was an honest mistake, but we don't want any incentives to cheat in situations like this by taking an illegal card. So when I'm finished explaining, you will have to reveal your hand to Namboothiri, she then chooses the card you're supposed to reveal.

As she didn't have any way to verify which card it really was, she can choose any card in your hand, exept for cards she knew was there before the error. We then check if the chosen card was legal to find by Open the Armory. If it was, it will stay in your hand, if not, it will be shuffled back into the library.

OK, if everything is clear, you can reveal your hand now. *wait to ensure correct fix* You will also get a warning for this, just to ensure that similar mistakes aren't made repeatedly, a third hidden card error warning would mean a game loss, so take care :)”

Marit, I like your instincts to explain the fix completely before letting them execute it. It gives them an opportunity to ask questions and even appeal before any information becomes revealed. I would also put the penalty of a Warning into that category. Some players may want to appeal when they hear that they are getting a Warning, especially if you add on that bit about upgrading to a Game Loss down the line.

May 20, 2016 03:13:22 AM

Finn Ellis
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific Northwest

Personal Tutor 25: One in the Hand is Worth Two in the Armory

In addition to the usual assumptions, I'll assume that Namboothiri hasn't seen any of Aalto's hand recently and there aren't any known cards in library. :) (Or you can just assume I took those into account properly.)

“Okay, so the actual problem here is that the card wasn't revealed before going into your hand, so this is what we call a Hidden Card Error. Aalto, you're going to get a warning. I'm going to explain the whole fix before we do anything, okay? Because Namboothiri doesn't know what card just went into your hand, you'll reveal your whole hand, and she'll pick one card to be the card you just drew. If the card she picks wouldn't have been a legal target for Open the Armory, we'll shuffle it back into the library, and then you two can play on. That make sense?”

Give them a second to absorb that and ask any questions. Before the actual reveal, and especially if Aalto seems skeptical, I'll make a point of mentioning that he can scoop instead if he prefers.

Some possible conversation:

N: “… do I have to pick an aura or equipment?”
“No, you can pick any card.”
A: “What! Why not?”
“Because, while I'm sure you did actually pick a legal card, from a rules perspective we have no way of knowing that.”
A: “So he just gets to take a card out of my hand? That sucks.”
“I know it's pretty rough. The penalty is steeper for problems where you end up with a card in your hand we didn't see, because a nefarious person could gain a lot of advantage that way. It actually used to be a game loss for that reason, but since it usually is by accident now we have this option instead.”


In addition to what Riki said, I appreciate about Marit's answer that we're not actually accusing the player of wrongdoing, even though the fix is designed to allow for that possibility. Reciting fixes is easy, managing how players feel about it is hard and important!