Originally posted by Kevin Desprez:
When one infraction leads to several different consequences on the game state, it becomes arguable that fixing part of the infraction brings the game state any closer to what it should have been. Therefore, unless the 2/2 token was actually put on the battlefield, you should not partial fix this.
Edited Isaac King (June 21, 2016 01:51:57 AM)
Originally posted by Isaac King:That's quite a important relation, though.
To me it seems that the two actions of making a zombie token and exiling the creature card are unrelated, aside from the fact that they are both caused by the same ability at the same time.
Originally posted by Isaac King:The difference between this version of Kalitas and the Traitor of Ghet is more than just wording. In particular, it triggers whenever a creature is exiled, not only when it is exiled because of Kalitas' replacement effect (and there is no easy way to mimic the Traitor of Ghet's ability with a trigger). Notice that, if one forgot to exile a creature with this version, the fix would most likely result in exiling the card and putting a Zombie in play (assuming that Kalitas is still on the battlefield when the fix is made).
Let's consider the situation if Kalitas instead had two separate abilities: “If a nontoken creature an opponent controls would die, instead exile that card” and “whenever a creature card is put into exile from the battlefield, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield”.
Originally posted by Isaac King:No.
In this case, would we still take into account an “unrelated” trigger that should have triggered when determining whether to apply the partial fix?
Originally posted by Isaac King:If the other object is still here, it triggers now. If it is not, it doesn't trigger.
Do we take into account triggered abilities of other objects that should have triggered?
Edited Florian Horn (June 21, 2016 09:24:05 AM)
Originally posted by Florian Horn:
I don't know the reasoning that caused this particular decision, but it seems to me that resolving only half of an action is dangerous for the integrity of the game. We can estimate that the consequences here are not dire, but an important part of the philosophy of the IPG is to have consistent fixes, rather than ad hoc “best way to repair a game”.
Originally posted by Florian Horn:
That's quite an important relation, though.
Originally posted by Florian Horn:
The difference between this version of Kalitas and the Traitor of Ghet is more than just wording. In particular, it triggers whenever a creature is exiled, not only when it is exiled because of Kalitas' replacement effect (and there is no easy way to mimic the Traitor of Ghet's ability with a trigger).
Originally posted by Florian Horn:
Notice that, if one forgot to exile a creature with this version, the fix would most likely result in exiling the card and putting a Zombie in play (assuming that Kalitas is still on the battlefield when the fix is made).
Edited Isaac King (June 21, 2016 12:13:10 PM)
Originally posted by Isaac King:The issue is not with Kalitas but with every other Magic card that could ever be printed.
I agree that we should have consistent fixes, but it seems to me that it is inconsistent to not apply the partial fix here. There isn't anything inherently disruptive about exiling the card now, so why avoid it just because we should have gotten a zombie?
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