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Competitive REL » Post: (Un)Harnessed Lightning

(Un)Harnessed Lightning

Feb. 22, 2017 03:16:07 PM

Brook Gardner-Durbin
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Great Lakes

(Un)Harnessed Lightning

Originally posted by Steffen Baumgart:

–Nathan committed a GRV by not adjusting his Energy counter (and not announcing any damage). You give him a Warning and roll back the game state to the point where Harnessed Lightning is resolving and let Nathan resolve it correctly. (he'll most likely gain 3 Energy and not deal any damage)

–Nathan committed a GRV by not adjusting his Energy counter. Backing up would cause too much disruption, so you only give him a Warning and leave the game state as it is. (no Energy is gained)

I dislike giving GRVs for not adjusting the energy here, because I can't imagine stepping in and giving a GRV if I saw a player shortcutting with their energy if there were no other effects.

Imagine you were just watching a match and saw Nathan play Lightning on a 3 toughness creature, Albert had no responses, and they both put their cards into the graveyard. Would you step in and give a GRV to Nathan for not having moved his energy counter up 3 and then down 3? Of course not, that's clearly a shortcut.

I think this seems like the same thing – by not adjusting the energy counter, Nathan has indicated he is following a shortcut to just have his Lightning deal 3. No penalties, no rewinds, no problems…and no giving him the 3 energy later on.

Feb. 28, 2017 11:26:06 AM

Helge Stoffregen
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

German-speaking countries

(Un)Harnessed Lightning

Originally posted by Steffen Baumgart:

Originally posted by Ievgen Starodiedov:

So what should I do as a judge in this situation? I'm strongly agree with Emilien that players are not satisfied with game state as they're asking for help.
I don't really understand what should I do with situation like this on Competitive REL since I've just become L1 Judge.

The way I see it, there are 3 possible rulings you could make here:
  • Nathan didn't adjust his Energy counter while resolving Harnessed Lightning, so we're going to assume that he spent all 3 Energy he would've gained to deal 3 damage to the indestructible 3/1 attacker. No infraction, no penalty, no fix. Scott seems to be in favor of this.
  • Nathan committed a GRV by not adjusting his Energy counter (and not announcing any damage). You give him a Warning and roll back the game state to the point where Harnessed Lightning is resolving and let Nathan resolve it correctly. (he'll most likely gain 3 Energy and not deal any damage)
  • Nathan committed a GRV by not adjusting his Energy counter. Backing up would cause too much disruption, so you only give him a Warning and leave the game state as it is. (no Energy is gained)
In the end, it's up to you and what you think would fit the actual situation the best.

If you choose option 2 or 3, the IPG states that Albert commited a FtmGS. Since Albert thereby commited an infraction, you'd also have to investigate cheating against him.
If he noticed Nathan not adjusting his energy and didn't ask him or call for a judge, this can be considered gaining an advantage by not reporting a rules violation - i.e. cheating. And at this point, I'll really have to hit the breaks. Albert simply must assume his opponent dealt three damage - option 1 is the only solution. Albert did not commit any infractions, and if he didn't, Nathan can't have either.
A game state is either legal or illegal, but if it could be both, it has to be assumed to be legal.