Hello!

I would be grateful of you could share your opinions on the following situations.

Scenario 1:
Two friends, Alex and Ned, are playing in the last round of a GPT, they both have no chance of winning any prizes and are playing just for fun. They have just drawn their opening hands for their Game 3. Alex notices that he has drawn improperly - he has 8 cards in his hand. He tells that to Ned. Ned offers to Alex: “No matter, just shuffle and draw a new hand of seven”. Alex does that. A spectator stops the game and calls a judge.

Scenario 2:
The same as 1, but the offer to deviate is brought up by Alex.

Scenario 3:
Similar to 1, but after Alex does the shuffle and draws seven cards, Ned calls a judge on him (despite the fact that they are friends :)).

Scenario 4:
Similar to 1, but Ned, instead of offering the fix directly to Alex, calls a judge and asks her “I know, this is generaly not allowed, but I would like to keep my hand and Ned to draw seven - there is nothing in this tournament for us except for fun. Is it possible?”

How would you react in the particular cases? Will you be willing to go the DQ-way (for scenario 1-3)?

Thanks,

Milan

Originally posted by Milan Majerčík:

How would you react in the particular cases? Will you be willing to go the DQ-way (for scenario 1-3)?

While I do not agree with what the players want to do on their own to fix the 8 cards in hand error, these players should not be instantly DQ'd for what they are doing and this situation needs investigation as appropiate.

DQ penalties are issued for UC-Cheating infractions. According to the IPG, cheating can only occur if two conditions are true:

1) The offending player is aware that his/her actions are illegal.
2) The offending player is seeking advantage through the illegal action.

It doesn't appear that Ned is using this “deviation” to gain an advantage in the game. Alex on the other hand could be if he were to offer this deviation in order to avoid a penalty from a judge.

Edited Eric Paré (April 8, 2014 07:32:20 AM)

Well, that's what I would like to understand here - whether UC-Cheating is appropriate here.

In all scenarios, Alex knows that he is doing something illegal and I see the potential for advantage on his side:
1) He is not awarded a penalty (Warning).
2) By not applying the standard remedy for Improper Drawing at Start of Game, he ends up with more cards in his hand (7 instead of 6).

Another thing I am not sure about is Ned's “rules lawyering” in Scenario 3 - is it OK?

Thanks!

My take

1-2) I'd explain to both of them that they're still in the tournament, so we need to keep things running by the book. And by similar logic, we're looking at a warning for IDSoG for Alex, and FtMGS for Ted. Remind them that if anything funny comes up, make sure to call for a judge, and if either is concerned about the warning, give them the “it's just a warning, no big deal as long as you're not doing it again” schpiel.

No penalties. Since he should have drawn 6, shuffle one back at random, and let him continue with mulligans.

3) I'm having an uncomfortable chat with Ned. This looks like a textbook definition of him allowing his opponent to do something illegal so he can bring it up later, DQ territory. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but things don't look good for him initially.

4) Similar to 1-2 just without the warnings. I'd also make sure to thank them for checking before doing anything potentially awkward.

How does the option for players to declare the game a draw and start a new one tie into this? This occurs most commonly in the case of both players deciding to mulligan and then agreeing to both go to 7 again, shortcutting through ‘we declare this game to be a draw and are now drawing our opening hands for the next one’.

There is a legal way to do it, I'm just not sure if Alex and Ted are aware of this option, and how much I should inform them about it if asked (in scenario 4).

The way you suggested is not applicable here, because agreeing to tie the game would result into both players drawing new hand of 7, which is not what players did in this case. Only one player here has drawn a new hand of 7, while the other player kept his original hand, which means that this could not be considered to be draw.

One option you can offer the players is that you assess the penalty (improper drawing) and then tell them then can ID or one of them can concede and the match is over and they can do what they want. This is because the penalty has to be assessed, but they can just concede (or ID) before the fix is applied.

After all, if they're playing for fun, then they won't mind the warning or the ID. This is an option that can make all parties happy without breaking any rules.

If they ID that game they still have to play another game. Swiss is first to Two wins, not just best two out of three.

Players can intentionally draw an entire match or a single game

From the MTR:

2.4Conceding or Intentionally Drawing Games or Matches
If a game or match is not completed, players may concede or mutually agree to a draw that game or match at anytime.

(Emphasis added)