Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Regular REL » Post: Proxying cards at player's request.

Proxying cards at player's request.

July 28, 2014 01:56:11 PM

Frank Rodriguez
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Proxying cards at player's request.

In an M15 Draft at FNM, a player drafts a card that he wants to play with but not ruin. The player planned on playing without sleeves. The player asks if they can play with a proxy instead of the drafted card. What do you do?

July 28, 2014 02:13:50 PM

Nick Rutkowski
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Proxying cards at player's request.

Proxies are only issued if the card is damaged and could be considered marked. We do not issue proxies for players who wish to not play with valuable cards.

July 28, 2014 02:40:06 PM

Jeff S Higgins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific Northwest

Proxying cards at player's request.

You can refer the player to MTR 3.4 if they ask for a citation.

July 28, 2014 03:47:05 PM

Ward Poulisse
Judge (Uncertified)

BeNeLux

Proxying cards at player's request.

You can sell him sleeves

July 28, 2014 04:59:26 PM

Dustin De Leeuw
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Tournament Organizer

BeNeLux

Proxying cards at player's request.

MTR 3.4: A proxy card is used during competition to represent an Authorized Game Card that has been accidentally damaged or excessively worn in the current tournament (including damaged or misprinted Limited product) as determined solely by the Head Judge. Proxies are not allowed as substitutes for cards that their owner has damaged intentionally or through negligence.

So the player basically has 4 choices:
1) Play with the card, unsleeved
2) Buy or borrow sleeves
3) Play without that card
4) Drop from the tournament (and be happy with the value)

Providing a proxy as a means of customer service is not a good idea, as this violates Wizards's policy.

July 28, 2014 05:20:32 PM

Alexis Hunt
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Proxying cards at player's request.

Originally posted by MTR:

Players may ask a judge for permission to replace a card with another version of the same card.

Would you give this permission if the player had another version of the card he was okay playing (say, if the card from the pack was foil and the replacement was not, or if the replacement is more damaged)?

July 28, 2014 05:28:31 PM

Dustin De Leeuw
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Tournament Organizer

BeNeLux

Proxying cards at player's request.

Replacing a foil card with the same non-foil card? Sure, as technically speaking, that would be the same card! But a damaged version… amidst all those booster mint other cards… that sounds like marked cards is going to be a potential problem there.

July 28, 2014 06:58:14 PM

Marius Müller
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Proxying cards at player's request.

Originally posted by Dustin De Leeuw:

But a damaged version… amidst all those booster mint other cards… that sounds like marked cards is going to be a potential problem there.

Right. In my opinion (and in terms of the MTR) we must ensure the integrity of the card pool. It all comes down to the four options Dustin already mentioned. In that case, I'd encourage the player to use sleeves for the sake of his own cards he spent money on.

July 29, 2014 12:26:52 AM

Andrew Heckt
Judge (Uncertified)

Italy and Malta

Proxying cards at player's request.

This and what Sean brought after (the player finding himself – you are under no obligation to do it for him - another legitimate copy of the same card) are great options that still provide customer service.

Andy


From: Dustin De Leeuw
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:00 AM
To: Heckt, Andy
Subject: Re: Proxying cards at player's request. (Regular REL)


MTR 3.4: A proxy card is used during competition to represent an Authorized Game Card that has been accidentally damaged or excessively worn in the current tournament (including damaged or misprinted Limited product) as determined solely by the Head Judge. Proxies are not allowed as substitutes for cards that their owner has damaged intentionally or through negligence.

So the player basically has 4 choices:
1) Play with the card, unsleeved
2) Buy or borrow sleeves
3) Play without that card
4) Drop from the tournament (and be happy with the value)

Providing a proxy as a means of customer service is not a good idea, as this violates Wizards's policy.

——————————————————————————–
If you want to respond to this thread, simply reply to this email. Or view and respond to this message on the web at http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/post/72844/

Disable all notifications for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/11464/
Receive on-site notifications only for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/11464/?onsite=yes

You can change your email notification settings at http://apps.magicjudges.org/profiles/edit

July 29, 2014 03:32:10 AM

Frank Rodriguez
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Proxying cards at player's request.

Thanks for all of your help. The same player asked in a prior tournament(Constructed) if he could play with a proxy card and I said no. He asked again in this tournament(Draft). I said no. And then another player asked, “since when do you not issue proxies”. I told him that I would issue a proxy if the card was accidentally damaged but not for the sake of the player's request. I just wanted to make sure that I was not out of line. Again, thanks for all of your help.

Aug. 16, 2014 03:33:55 PM

Thomas Ralph
Judge (Level 3 (UK Magic Officials)), Scorekeeper

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Proxying cards at player's request.

Originally posted by Frank Rodriguez:

Thanks for all of your help. The same player asked in a prior tournament(Constructed) if he could play with a proxy card and I said no. He asked again in this tournament(Draft). I said no. And then another player asked, “since when do you not issue proxies”. I told him that I would issue a proxy if the card was accidentally damaged but not for the sake of the player's request. I just wanted to make sure that I was not out of line. Again, thanks for all of your help.

This is a really great example of why deviating from a rule “because it's good customer service” can sometimes just be storing up problems and leading to a much worse scenario in the future. It seems that the player in question had developed an expectation based on his previous events that foil/chase cards would be proxied as of right, because someone somewhere decided they weren't gonna follow the rule on proxies. If the player was familiar with how things should be done, he would probably have come with sleeves.

You did everything right, Frank.