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Competitive REL » Post: Partial Backup with Complex Actions

Partial Backup with Complex Actions

Dec. 20, 2014 08:26:41 PM

Florian Horn
Judge (Level 5 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

France

Partial Backup with Complex Actions

Aziraphale had Phyrexian Arena in play, and announces the trigger at the beginning of his turn. Newton tries to Stifle it, Aziraphale counter/draws with Cryptic Command, and then moves on to his draw step, forgetting to draw and lose one life for the Arena trigger.

The error is detected a turn later.

Drawing a card is one of the partial backups, but losing one life is not.

What should we do in this situation?

Dec. 23, 2014 03:33:22 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Partial Backup with Complex Actions

I'd treat this as a Missed Trigger, even though it was announced at the correct time - it was then missed. Handle it like any Missed Trigger, allowing the opponent to decide whether or not to put it on the stack.

This odd scenario is actually a good example of why we want the opponent to have a voice in the outcome: they may want the life loss, they might have Toil // Trouble in hand and thus want the card draw, or they might just say “nope, not getting that extra card”.

However, there is no such thing as a “partial backup”. There are a few specific instances where you can simply apply a remedy (which probably feels like a “partial fix”, but that term isn't used) - this is not a match for one of those. The player didn't simply forget to draw, he forgot a set of actions.

d:^D

Dec. 23, 2014 05:01:08 PM

Kaylee Mullins
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Partial Backup with Complex Actions

Scott, the player has clearly indicated awareness of the trigger and per the IPG “Once any of the above obligations has been fulfilled, or the trigger has been otherwise acknowledged, further problems are treated as a Game Play Error — Game Rule Violation”. I don't see how this would meet the significant and exceptional circumstances for a deviation. Yes, the player would end up getting just the card draw and not the drawback of losing a life if we apply the partial fix available for a GRV. However both players are responsible for ensuring the correct game state and they both fought over the trigger. They're obviously aware it existed and both partly responsible for the error here.

Dec. 23, 2014 05:02:41 PM

Elliot Raff
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

USA - Midatlantic

Partial Backup with Complex Actions

From the IPG regarding Missed Triggers:
“Once any of the above obligations has been fulfilled, or the trigger has been otherwise acknowledged, further problems are treated as a Game Play Error — Game Rule Violation.”

The trigger has been acknowledged, so this can't be a Missed Trigger. The trigger was on the stack, and it was a target of Stifle. It has moved to GRV territory. Applying a Missed Trigger fix to a GRV doesn't feel right. We have already determined that the remedy can't be applied here. Determine if the game state can be backed up to the point of the error. If it can't, then leave the game as is.

EDIT: Looks like I was beaten to the punch by Mr. Mullins :D

Edited Elliot Raff (Dec. 23, 2014 05:03:07 PM)