Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Regular REL » Post: Revealing Manifested cards

Revealing Manifested cards

Jan. 17, 2015 11:05:52 AM

Mitja Bosnic
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Europe - East

Revealing Manifested cards

This question came up at our Prerelease, but it definitely applies to Competitive as well.

Should Manifested cards be revealed at the end of the game? It's similar to Morph, though there's not really a danger of misplaying hidden information here, so I'm not sure. My first ruling was “yes”, but I'd appreciate an official answer.

Edited Mitja Bosnic (Jan. 17, 2015 11:06:15 AM)

Jan. 17, 2015 11:35:29 AM

Théo CHENG
Judge (Uncertified)

France

Revealing Manifested cards

Hello,

I quoted from the release note published by Matt Tabak :

If a face-down permanent you control leaves the battlefield, you must reveal it. You must also reveal all face-down spells and permanents you control if you leave the game or if the game ends.

Edited Théo CHENG (Jan. 17, 2015 11:35:43 AM)

Jan. 17, 2015 11:39:31 AM

Mitja Bosnic
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Europe - East

Revealing Manifested cards

Thank you very much, I missed this somehow!

Jan. 18, 2015 01:05:38 AM

Matt Braddock
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

USA - Midatlantic

Revealing Manifested cards

It should be noted that this applies at all RELs because it is a game rule regarding face-down permanents leaving the battlefield.

707.9. If a face-down permanent moves from the battlefield to any other zone, its owner must reveal it
to all players as he or she moves it. If a face-down spell moves from the stack to any zone other
than the battlefield, its owner must reveal it to all players as he or she moves it. If a player leaves
the game, all face-down permanents and spells owned by that player must be revealed to all players.
At the end of each game, all face-down permanents and spells must be revealed to all players

Jan. 18, 2015 12:34:21 PM

Ferran Jovell Megias
Judge (Uncertified)

Iberia

Revealing Manifested cards

I had to tell the players several times during a prerelease yerterdday. However, I do not fully understand the phylosophy behind this rule. Could someone explain it to me?

Thanks.

Jan. 18, 2015 01:06:18 PM

Brian Schenck
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Revealing Manifested cards

Originally posted by Ferran Jovell:

I had to tell the players several times during a prerelease yerterdday. However, I do not fully understand the phylosophy behind this rule. Could someone explain it to me?

It treats all face-down permanents equally and consistently. That way you don't have different sets of face-down permanents being treated differently, and keeps players in the habit of revealing face-down permanents (which is likely a desired behavior).

Jan. 18, 2015 08:28:43 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Revealing Manifested cards

In addition to Brian's excellent point, imagine this scenario:

George: “Judge! He didn't reveal his Morph!”
Frank: “Hey, it wasn't a Morph, I manifested that one!”
Judge: “YUK”

Sorting out that disagreement is not fun. That's just another reason why, as Brian noted, we should treat all face-down cards the same.

d:^D

Jan. 18, 2015 11:00:38 PM

Sal Cortez
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific West

Revealing Manifested cards

Manifest might make it harder to detect players who morph down an island, but that almost seems corner case.

Jan. 19, 2015 01:07:51 AM

Ferran Jovell Megias
Judge (Uncertified)

Iberia

Revealing Manifested cards

Originally posted by Brian Schenck:

It treats all face-down permanents equally and consistently. That way you don't have different sets of face-down permanents being treated differently, and keeps players in the habit of revealing face-down permanents (which is likely a desired behavior).

Wow, thanks Brian! That was a very good explanation!

Sal Cortez
Manifest might make it harder to detect players who morph down an island, but that almost seems corner case.

For this I told the players to clearly differentiate which face-down cards are Morph and Manifestations. Those tokens come in handy in this kind of situations.