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Regular REL » Post: Foil peel alters

Foil peel alters

July 29, 2015 06:58:40 AM

Valdas Kalvis
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

Europe - North

Foil peel alters

Recently some players locally got into making these: Technology how to make them
I'm not very much into allowing them in sanctioned tournaments (definitely not at Comp REL), but I was wondering what's the opinion (and arguments for/against) of other judges, especially the ones better-versed in alter policies than I am.

July 29, 2015 07:05:28 AM

Charlotte Sable
Judge (Level 3 (Magic Judges Finland))

Europe - North

Foil peel alters

While these are very neat and creative, they're not allowable for
sanctioned play. Because they incorporate art elements from other Magic
cards, the risk of confusing your opponent at a glance is very high. There
are also issues with verifying that the card is genuine when it has been
altered like this, not to mention the usual concerns over covering the
name, text, or mana cost.

July 29, 2015 10:06:31 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Foil peel alters

Opinion: that seems like a lot of work, and hard to get it to look and feel right. I probably wouldn't allow the one in that example - I suspect it would fail a lot of the criteria listed below.

Official: each Head Judge determines, based on several criteria, if any altered card will be allowed *in their event*. (Emphasis because my decision at one event does not guarantee the same decision at any other event.)
Those criteria include:
  • must be genuine and published by Wizards of the Coast
  • standard Magic back, or double-faced card
  • no square corners
  • black or white borders (before the alter!)
  • the art must be recognizable
  • the alter can't include strategic advice
  • no offensive images
  • mana cost and name can't be obstructed
Those are per the MTR; in addition, I check the feel (is it too thick or thin, is the stiffness the same as other cards), and if the alteration “bleeds” to the edges of the card, is that visible in a sleeve?

And, it's always important to tell a player “I {will|won't} allow these today, but be sure to always check with a Judge before your next event.”

d:^D

Aug. 1, 2015 03:25:07 AM

Daniel Brandt
Judge (Level 1 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

Foil peel alters

<html><head></head><body><div style=“font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;”><div>From my experience those alters don&#39;t come out completely flat and have edges that can be felt even through the sleeves. So the potential for easy cheating with these is given and I wouldn&#39;t allow them.</div></div></body></html>

Aug. 7, 2015 03:54:46 PM

Rich Marin
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Northeast

Foil peel alters

This process specifically puts portions of a different card onto a card like a basic land. The card itself would be a Forest or a Mountain (in the examples shown). Covering their name with the foil film from another card wouldn't make them legal for play - it would obstruct the mana cost and name of the original legal card.

Aug. 8, 2015 06:56:37 AM

Edward Bell
Judge (Uncertified)

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Foil peel alters

That's the part I was concerned about. I assume the card that is ‘whole’ is the legal card and is the card that needs to be played, although there isn't anything in the guide that specifically says that.

Going through the guidelines:
must be genuine and published by Wizards of the Coast
- check, both the basic land and the other card are genuine (note nothing said here about the card being ‘whole’ or the background card)
standard Magic back, or double-faced card
- check
no square corners
- check
black or white borders (before the alter!)
- check
the art must be recognizable
- check, it's just moved down a bit.
the alter can't include strategic advice
- check
no offensive images
- check
mana cost and name can't be obstructed
- check

For the lands, I can see them being allowed if you couldn't distinguish them from the rest of the deck in sleeves without much fuss, its the non-lands that are the issue.

Aug. 8, 2015 08:06:27 AM

James Winward-Stuart
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials)), Tournament Organizer

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Foil peel alters

There are a couple of issues that your run through the checklist doesn't quite capture:

One is the “which card is this” question which you do mention; the card name which is showing is the card which it is. If you cut the name off one card, then glue on the name from another card, then… that's an interesting philosophical question, but not one that most HJ are going to bother with at an actual event. They'll (rightly) just disallow the alter.

The second is the verifiability of “must be genuine”. Because of all the over-sticking, it's often impossible to actually verify that the underlying card is a genuine copy of what it purports to be. So, it is not allowable.

As for the “which card is it” question, I would say that what you're calling the “background card” is what it is. You are essentially performing a high volume of alteration on that card (sticking other stuff to it etc.).