Hello everyone, so I'm fairly certain while judging prereleases this past weekend, I made a major MTR goof but am interested in the discussion (if any) that may come from it.

During deck construction during an event, I noticed a player had an expedition (windswept heath) they had pulled off to the side while they were building their W/G deck. I made a comment about how cool and convenient that was for them, getting a playable expedition. They told me they weren't going to use it for fear of any damage. I sympathised with them on this, always being on eggshells when I have any money cards in a deck I'm playing and offered, as the HJ, to make up a proxy, explaining he can play that in his deck and show any opponent the actual land when it comes up. I realized after this that a few others had the same worries, and did the same, writing a proxy up on a basic with a sharpie.

After the event, I had a bit of an itch in my head, and looked over the MTR, which says

“A proxy card is used during competition to represent an Authorized Game Card that has been accidentally damaged or excessively worn in the current tournament” -MTR -3.4

Clearly by the letter of the law, a big mistake has been made. I was wondering if people think this could be another exception for limited events in the future. Is there too much chance for exploitation? Is there some other bit that makes this impossible? Do I need to hang up my shirt for this terrible violation? (The last one is mostly a joke)

I don't believe you can reasonably use value of the card as criteria to justify a proxy.

Whose buy list do you use? Or do you use their sell price.
What value do you set it at.
Why is $20 ok, but $19.50 isn't?

What about for legacy constructed? Can I then proxy my duals?

The best course of action for the reasons above (and other reasons) is to not allow it.

Unfortunately proxying isn't an option. Changing the rules isn't an option is option either - how do you define what cards are proxy-able? Price? Who sets the price (and at what value)? What about non-monetary value? What about the guy who doesn't have sleeves at all and doesn't want to ruin their brand new cards so wants 23 proxies?

It's probably just better to let the play decide if they want to play it or not, and leave it at that.

I also faced the same issue but one of the things that occurred to me was I could actually get the player to use a normal version of the fetch land in their deck and when they play it, they can show the expedition that they have. The player declined to do so anyway. 




Just confirming that this would be okay. Since the card used is not a proxy and is the actual correct magic card, just from different expansions. 



Sashi C Loco (Emcee/Host/BroadcastDJ/HipHopArtiste)

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Mark Mc Govern
<forum-21568-b49c@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

Quickly: do not create proxies for “valuable” cards.

I'll re-open this topic when I have more information about policy for handling of Expeditions at Sealed and Draft events.

d:^D

(Apologies for simply forgetting to update this!)

By now, I'm sure most of us have seen this policy update.

The question remains, what about players who have an Expedition, want to play with it, but don't want to degrade the condition and value of the card?

• The player may use an exact replacement - e.g., a Khans of Tarkir Polluted Delta instead of an Expedition Polluted Delta.
  
• The player may double-sleeve their deck and shuffle carefully.
  
• The player may elect to play without the Expedition, to protect it.
  
• DO NOT CREATE PROXIES (unless a card is damaged during the normal course of play)
  

d:^D

Does the policy extend to checklist cards in the same way? I had a player approach me at a PPTQ who wanted to add a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to his deck last minute, but didn't have a checklist card for it. We scrounged through the store for a spare Origins checklist, but weren't able to find one. We were fortunate enough to find a player who had a spare one, but if we hadn't would we still want to avoid issuing a proxy in this case? Does the answer change if his sleeves were not opaque?

Policy does not support proxies for checklist cards. Players need to either have checklist cards, or opaque sleeves.

d:^D

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

(Apologies for simply forgetting to update this!)

By now, I'm sure most of us have seen this policy update.

The question remains, what about players who have an Expedition, want to play with it, but don't want to degrade the condition and value of the card?

• The player may use an exact replacement - e.g., a Khans of Tarkir Polluted Delta instead of an Expedition Polluted Delta.
  
• The player may double-sleeve their deck and shuffle carefully.
  
• The player may elect to play without the Expedition, to protect it.
  
• DO NOT CREATE PROXIES (unless a card is damaged during the normal course of play)
  

d:^D

I sincerely apologize for the thread necromancy, Scott, but I'm assuming this applies to Kaladesh Inventions as well? Or have we decided not to go this route?

That policy will also apply to Kaladesh Inventions, as well as future incarnations of the newly-announced Masterpiece Series.

If that changes (for some reason, which I can not imagine), you will be notified in the usual manner.

Thanks!

d:^D

P.S. - do NOT create those proxies, even though I'm sure you will be asked - begged! - by your favorite players…

-Question Has Been (Thouroughly) Answered-

Spoiler: I was Wrong!

Edited Bronson Dunayevich (Sept. 13, 2018 08:13:17 AM)

No, do not do this.

As a restatement of above posts,

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

The player may use an exact replacement - e.g., a Khans of Tarkir Polluted Delta instead of an Expedition Polluted Delta.
The player may double-sleeve their deck and shuffle carefully.
The player may elect to play without the Expedition, to protect it.
DO NOT CREATE PROXIES (unless a card is damaged during the normal course of play)

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 at 03:39, Bronson Dunayevich <
forum-21568-993e@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> I shall Reanimate this thread once again!
>
> Is there a Definition for Damaged as far as MTR is concerned?
>
no definition, but by common sense it is damaged if you cannot play it,
e.g., it is recognizable inside the deck.

Surely that makes a mockery of policy? Either the card is damaged through play or it is not?

Graham

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Mar 2018, at 02:39, Bronson Dunayevich <forum-21568-61c2@apps.magicjudges.org<mailto:forum-21568-61c2@apps.magicjudges.org>> wrote:


I shall Reanimate this thread once again!

Is there a Definition for Damaged as far as MTR is concerned?

Couldn't the HJ Judge just deem the card Damaged and proceed with making a Proxy?

"Oh that's a cool Masterpiece/Promo, too bad it got Damaged

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Originally posted by Bronson Dunayevich:

I shall Reanimate this thread once again!

Is there a Definition for Damaged as far as MTR is concerned?

Couldn't the HJ Judge just deem the card Damaged and proceed with making a Proxy?

"Oh that's a cool Masterpiece/Promo, too bad it got Damaged

No. Really, no. Do not create proxies unless a card is actually damaged.