At many regular rel limited events (with continuous construction) I have seen a lot of people both asking for help with deck building and offering help with deck building. Is this allowed? Otherwise what are the best ways to discourage this?

This is allowed.


From the JAR document (found at http://wpn.wizards.com/en/node/61):

“Players and judges are encouraged to help one another at appropriate
times, such as during deck construction or between matches.”

//DLI

Like David said, since the event is being run at regular REL there are some things that are encouraged to help people play the game rather than restrict it to their personal knowledge and ability. If for some reason the event was being run at competitive REL then this would be a valid question and concern. The only real way to handle it in that case would be explaining the rule in question during a general announcement. It would be terrible to enforce as there's no monitoring outside that room. With it being an event with different levels of people I'd say let it go. The people that want or need help will ask and get a better experience while the people who want a more competitive environment will treat it as one for the challenge. I personally tend to help with sincere requests and don't ask for help to keep the competitive nature of my games up. Less sincere requests are usually due to laziness more than ineptitude. I give them a nudge in the right direction and leave it to them to figure out.

In less words, helping is fine and I think it's a good idea to keep the competitive level flexible based on the player on the other side of the table.

Sorry I missed that jar line when I read it before posting thanks for pointing it out.

I would sometimes also chip in to help the newer players on deckbuilding in sealed events! :) Just watch for people who may trade cards during the deck construction portion of the tournament. I have noticed a few of these cases amongst younger players. Just educate them that this is not allowed and you should use cards only in your pool.

I will also let the player know that in Competitive REL, outside assistance is not allowed. Always remember in Regular REL, the purpose is to educate the players and let them have fun.

It is perfectly allowed, but I would avoid helping during deck building if you are there solely as a judge and not as a player. If you help someons build their deck and they beat a “salty” player, they can start accusations that you saw everyone else's card pool and influenced decisions during deck building which will give yourself and the store you are at a bad reputation if the player is vocal enough.

I disagree there Nicholas - if there's a brand new player who needs help building their deck, by all means help if you're able. If someone starts throwing accusations around behind you're back then the problem is more than likely with them, and not with your conduct. It's a prerelease - it's about having fun with the new cards. It's not like it's even possible to scout a whole prerelease of 20 players, assess the quality of their pools (featuring brand new cards) and then tune a new player's deck to successfully defeat all comers. Any sensible member of your community will just ignore someone ranting off like that!

On the topic of advice though, I tend to limit myself to the bare minimum:
1. Deck minimum of 40, including lands
2. Advice is 22-23 spells in two colours
As for the actual build - let them pick the theme of their deck and then I'll narrow down their options. So for example if they have a cool Dragon, I'll take the red cards, separate out the very weakest cards. Then I'll suggest which of the other colours may pair well to help cast the dragon. I'll whittle it down to 25-26 cards and let them make the final cuts. What I won't do is say “don't play red, it's crap”.
It's important to me that they play a deck that they've had a hand in building - it makes the victories all the sweeter :)

This also opens you up to be flooded wIthaca questions during deck building that takes away from rules questions though. What I normally do is find a shop regular and have them help them instead. This leads to the new player making a new friend that they will regularly see, someone they can talk to between round about how their match went, and leaves me open to answer other players questions rather than deck building.

This is just NOT a concern. You are acting as any other player in the room
who may decide to help others. If you have rules questions to answer, or
your own deck to build, you (politely) let the player know you don't have
time to answer a flood of questions / build their deck, just like you would
if you weren't judging. They'll understand. Most of the room is
constructing mostly on their own while asking occasional questions of
nearby players, and people appear to have been handling this fine for years.

2016-01-14 14:06 GMT-05:00 Nicholas Spears <

Perhaps that was a bit strong. By all means, introducing a new player to
shop regulars is good customer service, so long as you're not
inconveniencing the regular, but there's just nothing wrong with helping a
player to the same extent you would as a player. You're providing great
customer service to that player. If a player irrationally feels you helping
them was unfair, it's just as fair as any competent player helping.

2016-01-14 18:25 GMT-05:00 Dominik Chłobowski <

Originally posted by Nicholas Spears:

This also opens you up to be flooded wIthaca questions during deck building that takes away from rules questions though. What I normally do is find a shop regular and have them help them instead. This leads to the new player making a new friend that they will regularly see, someone they can talk to between round about how their match went, and leaves me open to answer other players questions rather than deck building.

Very rarely will you have a lot of rule questions during deckbuilding though. Sure, pointing them to a regular you know can explain thing well to them and help them improve is very good, especially if you think they are better at explaining and teaching than you are, but bottom line is that you can also do that.

Generally in my store, quite a lot of people consults me regarding their decks, whether I'm judging or not and if I have time to spare, I'll happily help out on a first come-first serve basis.

If any player is dissatisfied with me helping players, I will probably inform them of the purpose of regular REL which is to ensure that players have a good time. Luckily, I've yet to have someone complain about that.

Edited Michael He (Jan. 14, 2016 06:05:17 PM)